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+--- Thread: Service Bulletin but not for the RS? (/thread-797.html)
Service Bulletin but not for the RS? - trudd - 07-25-2022
https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/bmw-recalls-440000-r-1200-gs-and-r-1250-gs-bikes-drive-related-issues
Can anybody confirm my understanding on this?
I'm assuming this recall isn't on the RS because the final drive is a different ratio? I thought the GS was different but the R, RS, RT were all the same?
RE: Recall but not the RS? - Pyrrho - 07-25-2022
I saw that and am wondering just how much it affects RSes and Rs. Said affects the RT since 2014 but note BMW isn't including the additional vent on all new shaft-driven bikes, just GSes.
Yet another reason to take your bike's maintenance more into your own hands and check that shaft for wear, corrosion, etc.
RE: Recall but not the RS? - Ray - 07-25-2022
Right - not sure I understand the article.... It mentions fitting a ventilation valve to the drive shaft.... As the shaft is (hopefully) solid, I assume they mean the swing arm, but not clear how well that works to keep corrosion down.
Is this supposed to be a second breather valve positioned proximal to the final drive (which already has a breather valve)?
The article goes on to strain credibility of the source by mentioning that new R1200 GSs have been manufactured in the last 9 months. ("BMW...since October 2021 has been fitting all newly-built R 1200 GS and R 1250 GS motorcycles with the ventilation hole.")
In trying to find more info - I see this was posted in Advrider forum 6 days ago and then removed.
Not likely a true recall.
RE: Recall but not the RS? - darrell - 07-25-2022
If I understand my mechanic and the article it is a service bulletin meaning your dealer will install the vent on the GS/GSA bikes when in for service. Don’t go in for service no idea how it works.
My new 2022 R1250RT assembled on 1/28/22 has the drilled hole and one way rubber valve installed. Checked with a RS owner on this forum who’s bike was built the same week and his has the hole and valve.
On the MOA forum I learned the valve is called a “duck bill valve”.
Despite this valve I’m still having my drive shaft pulled on the RT and lubed at the 12,000 mile service just to be sure it is lubed properly.
RE: Recall but not the RS? - Ray - 07-25-2022
Thanks Darrell.
Kind of a drag when a moto "journalist" feels they need to give a sensationalist, breathless, and inaccurate report on a service bulletin.... Just because that style of reporting attracts subscribers and advertising in mainstream media does not mean it has a place in motojournalism. I'm done with Visordown.
RE: Recall but not the RS? - Pyrrho - 07-25-2022
(07-25-2022, 07:42 PM)Ray Wrote: Kind of a drag when a moto "journalist" feels they need to give a sensationalist, breathless, and inaccurate report on a service bulletin.... Just because that style of reporting attracts subscribers and advertising in mainstream media does not mean it has a place in motojournalism. I'm done with Visordown.
First line of Alex Whitworth's (author of the article) bio reads, "Alex has been working in the motorcycle industry for as long as he has been at Visordown, which has been since March 2022 so we'll let you work it out from there. He's the new guy." GS is probably the bike he's most familiar with due to popularity in the press, so easy pick'ns to get some of those juicy juicy clicks.
It worked on us. And agreed on Visordown. They care more about clicks than my time or understanding of the subject they specialize in.
RE: Recall but not the RS? - Pyrrho - 07-25-2022
(07-25-2022, 05:02 PM)darrell Wrote: Despite this valve I’m still having my drive shaft pulled on the RT and lubed at the 12,000 mile service just to be sure it is lubed properly.
The latest Revzilla DailyRider video that was released I think this past weekend had Zack riding a R1250RTP. A viewer question near the end of the video asked about maintenance, so Zack said he asked a BMW rep that worked with all the CA police departments and their RT fleets, and the only thing he would concede is drive line issues. U-joints specifically, didn't mention splines. U-joints will fail no matter how well lubed starting around 80K on the RTs (yes I know your uncle's brother-in-law's neighbor is still riding a RT with 500K and an all-original driveline, he's not typical).
RE: Recall but not the RS? - darrell - 07-26-2022
Last night Wayne asked for some photos. l sent him some so he will likely post those. One shows me squeezing the duck bill and it opening so water should come out if there is any or enough to force it open. I can also grab the duck bill with my finger and thumb pushing the duck bill up and down so not tightly fitted in the hole.
When speaking with my mechanic last week they had not received the official notification from BMW all the details nor had any idea what will be expected if anything of the consumer owing bikes with this valve.
I doubt the splines would ever wear out if properly lubed and the shaft can move on it splines. The universal joints do fail as I know well. Mine at 93,000 miles. I’m guessing at 170,000 miles I’ll just install a new drive shaft or let the next owner decide.
RE: Recall but not the RS? - darrell - 07-26-2022
The one thing I did not catch earlier in this thread is the fact it was referred to as a recall. This is not a recall but rather a service bulletin which is a very different process at a dealership. The only time it will get looked at and maybe addressed is if you take your bike in to a dealer for service or maybe they might address without a formal service but rather just address the hole drill.
If I understand the service bulletin they are being compensated for 45 minutes of work by BMW so I assume they are not opening up the bike to even look at the drive shaft. Set up the jig, drill the hole and push the duck bill plug in would be my guess and yes it is a guess.
RE: Recall but not the RS? - ESquared - 07-26-2022
(07-25-2022, 05:02 PM)darrell Wrote: Checked with a RS owner on this forum who’s bike was built the same week and his has the hole and valve.
That would be me.
Here's the pic of the duckbill valve from below. Upon original inspection, it was just kind of "floating" in the hole, so I used a tiny set of needle-nosed pliers to gently pull it down/out until it was seated properly. It will bear keeping an eye on, as it doesn't seem like it would take much to move it out of position again. If not firmly in place, it sort of defeats the purpose, as all you're left with is about a 7mm diameter hole in the bottom of the swing arm, open to dirt, mud, water, whatever.
RE: Recall but not the RS? - Grumpy Goat - 07-26-2022
(07-26-2022, 03:28 AM)darrell Wrote: Last night Wayne asked for some photos. l sent him some so he will likely post those. One shows me squeezing the duck bill and it opening so water should come out if there is any or enough to force it open. I can also grab the duck bill with my finger and thumb pushing the duck bill up and down so not tightly fitted in the hole.
...
Darrell's photos are below.
I have actually done a shaft service on this bike (videos are on my YouTube channel) in addition to looking at countless videos on the subject. To say I am skeptical that this duck bill valve sill solve anything at all, is an understatement. We need to step back a bit and look at the issue ... what is the evacuation of moisture supposed to do? Reduce moisture content inside of the cardan shaft housing, and hence mitigate the conditions required for corrosion in way of splines that are not well lubricated. However, both ends of the cardan shaft housing also have rubber boots which are not watertight. The aft boot is shown below. Both boots have rubber clips (4 off) which clip to the cardan shaft housing and a sealing adhesive is supposed to be smeared at the clip interface between the boot and the housing.
This adhesive seal may or may not be there and even if there, there is no guarantee that it forms a complete seal. Point is, moisture will seek the least difficult way to get in / out of the shaft housing and my guess is that it will leak out and in at the boot-housing interface, while bypassing the duck-bill [one-way] valve entirely.
Speaking of the duck bill valve - how is entrained water supposed to get out? What is the pressure needed to push past the slot opening of the valve, when there is atmospheric pressure either side? Meanwhile the boots allow free communication.
But then what is a little rust between friends, right? I mean what is the problem with the shafts anyway? Is it the rust? Or is it the failure of the universal joint itself? The rust is superficial and causes a PITA when time comes to drop the final drive (see my video on this) but does it really cause failure of the universal joint? I argue that it has zero effect on the failure of these joints, and these failures come because of repeated cyclic / impact loads at the joints. Having nice lubricated splines mean that the cardan shaft is easy to come out if/when needed. The lubrication is also good at any gear interface for smoother quieter cooler operation.
The reason why you want the splines to be rust free is so that the shaft can be removed for inspection and hopefully replacement before they fail on the road, an inspection that still may not be called-for in the maintenance schedule of these bikes - someone with a 2022 can comment on this.
Until and unless they make the universal joint stronger (how strong?) they will continue to fail despite the band-aid rust-reduction solution that the likely useless duck-bill valve will provide.
My 2 cents.
Meanwhile I have bought a clip for the front spline and will continue to pull my shafts every 12k miles so I can inspect the joints either end.
Darrell's photos
RE: Recall but not the RS? - Grumpy Goat - 07-26-2022
(07-26-2022, 06:40 AM)darrell Wrote: The one thing I did not catch earlier in this thread is the fact it was referred to as a recall. This is not a recall but rather a service bulletin which is a very different process at a dealership. The only time it will get looked at and maybe addressed is if you take your bike in to a dealer for service or maybe they might address without a formal service but rather just address the hole drill.
If I understand the service bulletin they are being compensated for 45 minutes of work by BMW so I assume they are not opening up the bike to even look at the drive shaft. Set up the jig, drill the hole and push the duck bill plug in would be my guess and yes it is a guess.
I think your guess is absolutely correct, as is everything else you said prior to that.
RE: Recall but not the RS? - TriangleRider - 07-26-2022
The title of this thread should be changed...it is not a recall.
Here is some more info:
Final drive/Driveshaft Service Campaign - Wetheads - BMWSportTouring
VisorDown is just reporting on a Motorrad article. Here it is:
https://www.motorradonline.de/ratgeber/400000-bmw-gs-zum-kardan-check/
RE: Recall but not the RS? - Grumpy Goat - 07-26-2022
(07-26-2022, 01:08 PM)TriangleRider Wrote: The title of this thread should be changed...it is not a recall.
How about now?
RE: Service Bulletin but not for the RS? - Duccrazydave - 07-26-2022
http://www.minivalve.com/newsite/index.php/en/by-type/duckbill-umbrella-combination-valves/how-they-work
RE: Service Bulletin but not for the RS? - Pyrrho - 08-02-2022
BMWMOA weighs in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp3V4Ja-NTc
RE: Service Bulletin but not for the RS? - Grumpy Goat - 08-02-2022
(08-02-2022, 04:03 PM)Pyrrho Wrote: BMWMOA weighs in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp3V4Ja-NTc
Was glad to see he made that video. Said some things I would have said so he saved me the trouble ...
RE: Service Bulletin but not for the RS? - Grumpy Goat - 02-23-2024
Over two years down the road, it looks like the K54 RSs are going to get a free replacement driveshaft, per this video:
What is not clear is whether BMW Motorrad wil be reaching out to owners, or whether it will be up to the owners to book the bike in for service and have the dealer then deign to replace the driveshaft.
When I went to my dealership about 2 weeks ago for a casual visit, the Service Manager didn't think it applied to my bike. He did look up my VIN on the system, so I don't know what he was basing that on.
For me, how they have handled this is not a "positive" for BMW.
This is allegedly the official announcement:
BMW Motorrad has decided to make a change to the maintenance plan for the R 1200 / R 1250 models in order to improve customer satisfaction. Through ongoing field observations, it has been found that occasional damage can occur to the cardan shaft of these models, which can compromise the functionality of the drive system. In some cases, this can result in a loss of propulsion.
These issues are more prevalent in the R 1200 GS / R 1250 GS models and in the authorities vehicles of the series, compared to the standard road models. In view of this, a service campaign has already been planned for these models in 2022. As part of this campaign, the cardan shaft will be replaced at 60,000 km. And at lower mileages a specially developed testing method will be used to check for any pre-existing damage to the universal joints.
Cardan shaft damage is extremely rare in the road-oriented models of the R 1200 / 1250 family. The more moderate chassis geometry (with smaller angles of the cardan shaft in the swinging arm) and the absence of offroad use contribute to significantly lower stress levels on the component.
However, BMW Motorrad has decided to adjust the maintenance plan for all models in order to ensure customer satisfaction, longevity, and as a preventive quality measure.
The mileage-related replacement of the cardan shaft is provided free of charge to customers throughout the lifetime of the vehicle, even if the replacement threshold is reached multiple times and regardless of the age of the vehicle.
Affected customers with vehicles up to model year 2023 will receive an insert for the owner's manual either during their next workshop visit or will be sent it directly with an information letter, depending on the country.
From model year 2024 onwards, the maintenance plan will already be included in the owner's manual, and affected customers will no longer be separately notified.
The replacement of the cardan shaft has also been taken into account in the maintenance plan for the successor model R 1300 GS. In contrast to the R 1250 GS, where the cardan shaft is replaced at 60,000 km, the cardan shaft of the R 1300 GS is replaced at 80,000 km.
RE: Service Bulletin but not for the RS? - Mark - 02-23-2024
Had my RS shaft replaced all ready I'm good to go for the next 36,000 mi service. My bike doesn't get the drain plug.
RE: Service Bulletin but not for the RS? - Grumpy Goat - 02-24-2024
(02-23-2024, 10:30 PM)Mark Wrote: Had my RS shaft replaced all ready I'm good to go for the next 36,000 mi service. My bike doesn't get the drain plug.
That’s one down. I wonder if others have had theirs done and what was their experience. Almost sounds like one has to book the bike in for some [other] reason and while there they may “discover” that your bike is eligible and then do the replacement, likely at some other time because “they didn’t account for that extra work on this visit and they’re booked solid”.
