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+---- Thread: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines (/thread-259.html)
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Lee - 01-11-2020
I don't know if it's too late but contacting BMW customer relations might be worth a try.
I did this once for a out of warranty expense and BMW agreed to reimburse me.
The process was time consuming.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - mspratz - 01-11-2020
(01-11-2020, 08:51 AM)Lee Wrote: I don't know if it's too late but contacting BMW customer relations might be worth a try.Thanks Lee.
I did this once for a out of warranty expense and BMW agreed to reimburse me.
The process was time consuming.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - mspratz - 01-11-2020
I just called the dealer's service department. The bike is ready to be picked up. Final total $675.00. The service manager said that based on the number of hours they spent, it should have been over $900.00, but he gave me a break on the labor. We have freezing rain, ice, and snow today, so it will have to sit there for a few days at least.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - MrVvrroomm - 01-11-2020
I'm not trying to be a smartass, but what exactly was wrong with your RS with 22K miles on it before you tore it apart?
We've got two MY2016 RS in our garage, built dates are 14 months apart. 17K & 20K. I do all of my own maintenance on our motorcycles. By the time either of our drivetrains will need to be pulled apart, someone else will own them.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - mspratz - 01-11-2020
(01-11-2020, 11:05 AM)MrVvrroomm Wrote: I'm not trying to be a smartass, but what exactly was wrong with your RS with 22K miles on it before you tore it apart?The very first post of this thread describes the problem in detail. In brief, the rear end of the driveshaft mates to the input shaft of the final drive via splines. The final drive input shaft slides in and out of the rear end of the driveshaft slightly as the rear suspension extends and compresses. The joint was seized solid on my bike due to water infiltrating the swing arm somehow.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - MrVvrroomm - 01-11-2020
Yes, read the whole post/thread prior to posting. I know all about Darrell's bike. He lives 8 miles from me.
Was it making noise or vibration? Was there something out of the ordinary that could be detected via riding it or standing next to it?
Don't get me wrong, I've f'd up many, many mechanical things because I just wanted to see what it looked like inside.
Regarding Darrell's catastrophic failure: if dealer charged him or his extended warranty $12K to repair his RS, they're f'n crooks. A 93K mile RS with a catastrophic driveline failure is a "throw-away", my opinion.
His bike isn't worth a penny more now than it was 2 miles before it failed.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Grumpy Goat - 01-11-2020
Bruce, as you may have seen from now, the whole reason all this started was the failure on Darrell's bike - more specifically the failure of the universal joint which apparently starts to disintegrate at the yoke after X,000 miles. We noted that the driveshaft and universal joints are not serviceable and is $1200 alone, let alone the labour to install.
In Darrell's case, the catastrophic failure of the universal joint led to other damage in the transmission as a result, and had he known that the universal joints were failing, he would have only had to have the driveshaft replaced. Instead, and we all know the story, the repair was much more and his 3000 mile trip was reduced to failure at 300 miles.
Upon further investigating on the ADVrider forum it seems as though other people are experiencing U-joint failures, and some are mentioning rust also. Now these people are riding GSs and likely fording streams etc. so are likely submerging the driveshafts.
I have said in a post before that the joint between the rubber boot and the metal part of the shaft housing is BS when it comes to watertightness. At best it is weathertight. BMW does not state that their shaft-driven bikes should not be driven through water. AAMOF, many of their ads, marketing pubs etc show riders going through water.
Our initial concern (and still my concern) is not the rust - it is the U-joint and its impending failure after a certain number of miles (which apparently varies wildly). Mike started to take his driveshaft out so that he could inspect the U-joint for play and other signs of failure. The operation, though tedious, was not one that should cause any harm and was seen by several of us as a good preventative maintenance operation, so that we can catch this failure and limit it to $1200 instead of $12,000.
His bike was not making any noise before he started to take the driveshaft out and neither is mine at over 44k miles, but I also intend to take mine out soon and inspect it for U-joint wear.
Now, thanks to Mike and others' experience, I will also use this opportunity to re-seal the boot-housing interfaces and re-lube these splines. Hopefully I will not find water in mine and it come apart easily.
Unlike Mike I own 2 pressure washers, one (gas) more powerful than t'other (electric), and I suspect that I have used the latter once on the bike in the 4 years of ownership. I use the pressure washer on a "fan" setting and at the right distance the water spray is more gentle than a garden hose. I typically wash the bike with a garden hose and am not shy about spraying in the driveshaft housing (metal part) although I "ease off" around the boots. I never forded any streams and the bike has been heavy rains less than 5 times. I don't believe that I have any holes in my gaiter and I will be inspecting the silicone seals as well to see it they are incomplete also.
You - and BMW if they care to watch - will all likely see all of this on video.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Grumpy Goat - 01-11-2020
(01-11-2020, 09:37 AM)mspratz Wrote: I just called the dealer's service department. The bike is ready to be picked up. Final total $675.00. The service manager said that based on the number of hours they spent, it should have been over $900.00, but he gave me a break on the labor. We have freezing rain, ice, and snow today, so it will have to sit there for a few days at least.
The "break" on labour is typical BMW dealership speak, especially when they don't know what the frig they are doing and are learning on your bike. My fork oil replacement saga (10 hours in the shop) was a good example. They claimed that the amount they quoted me after all that time was just for one side so I go the other side done for free. I am not going to that dealership any more but will return to the dealership where I bought my bike since the mechanic there is a great and skilled fellow who I am friendly with. I am lucky in that there are 4 BMW dealerships in the greater Houston area.
I am glad to hear that it is finally done. I am also thankful that you took the time to post such a complete account of your experience so that we all can learn.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Lee - 01-11-2020
(01-11-2020, 01:08 PM)MrVvrroomm Wrote: Regarding Darrell's catastrophic failure: if dealer charged him or his extended warranty $12K to repair his RS, they're f'n crooks. A 93K mile RS with a catastrophic driveline failure is a "throw-away", my opinion.
His bike isn't worth a penny more now than it was 2 miles before it failed.
The repair cost more than the value of the bike.
Here is a copy of Darrell's post.
Total labor, parts, and a towing costs were a bit over $11,000. Most extended warranty policies pay up to the current value of the vehicle for a single incident and up to the total cost of vehicle before accessories are added for all incidents during the term of the contract. If you buy an extended warranty read it before signing so you know what you are buying. Might take a couple of hours. My bike was valued at $8400 so they paid that amount. BMW goodwill covered a nice part of the remaining. I worked with my dealer on the remaining.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Grumpy Goat - 01-12-2020
Agreed on the repair cost vs residual value of the bike, but Darrell keeps his bikes for a long time and I am sure that so long as he did not have to foot the bill, then it was OK. What he paid toward the repair was less than the value of the bike so it was worth it fpr him.
And that would be the way it is for me. I intend to keep my RS for a long time and it looks like every so often I would have to replace a driveshaft. I just want advance notice. I am prepared to replace wear items and as soon as I suffer an unexpected catastrophic failure not due to mishap, then I would be making some swift decisions.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Gordie Thomas - 01-12-2020
My 2016 RT only had a snap ring on the transmission end.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Duccrazydave - 01-12-2020
Thanks, Mike, for posting your experience with this problem. Here's hoping for your future miles to be uneventful, as far as maintenance is concerned!
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - mspratz - 01-13-2020
(01-12-2020, 07:30 PM)Gordie Thomas Wrote: My 2016 RT only had a snap ring on the transmission end.As does the RS, and all the R1200 water cooled bikes.
Here’s why you should check your drive-shaft from time to time - Grumpy Goat - 01-13-2020
Here is a magazine article that was brought to my attention:
Here’s why you should check your drive-shaft from time to time
https://riders.drivemag.com/news/here-s-why-you-should-check-your-drive-shaft-from-time-to-time
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Grumpy Goat - 01-15-2020
(01-11-2020, 09:37 AM)mspratz Wrote: I just called the dealer's service department. The bike is ready to be picked up. Final total $675.00. The service manager said that based on the number of hours they spent, it should have been over $900.00, but he gave me a break on the labor. We have freezing rain, ice, and snow today, so it will have to sit there for a few days at least.
Michael,
Did you get the bike back home yet? Any further developments?
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - mspratz - 01-16-2020
(01-15-2020, 12:39 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: Did you get the bike back home yet? Any further developments?I picked up the bike on Tuesday, as the temp was 40F that day, and looking much colder in the foreseeable future. Gave it a quick rinse to get the salt off, dried it with the leaf blower, and tucked it into the garage.
The rear boot is new. The tech used a liberal amount of the NBU 30 PTM grease on both ends of both boots. It has already dried to the point where it is very sticky and difficult to remove. That stuff is like a cross between grease and glue. It is amazingly expensive. The link above is to Amazon; you get 1.75 ozs (50 gm) for $24.00.
Front boot:
Rear boot:
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - mspratz - 01-16-2020
I trust others can see the pictures in that prior post. They aren't visible to me, but I have no idea why.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Grumpy Goat - 01-16-2020
(01-16-2020, 09:06 AM)mspratz Wrote: I trust others can see the pictures in that prior post. They aren't visible to me, but I have no idea why.
Michael,
I could see them but there was a problem with the photo of the rear boot - it was in the upper left corner of a huge canvas. I fixed it.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - AlanM - 01-15-2021
Hi all,
As we are in yet another lockdown to while away some time decided to have a look and grease if required the drive shaft on my 1250RS.
Only done 6800 miles but best do some in depth maintainace instead of reading or TV.
So rear wheel off paralever bolt out but! Seems like the 2019 MY has a spring clip on both the output from gearbox and the final pinion shaft.
Much pushing and levering no joy.
Finally as the spline in centre of cardan and the pinion shaft were both moving easily and had no sign of red dust or any corrosion I used an aerosol grease and put it all back.
If I had seen any problems I would have used more force to snap over the spring circlips but was happy with what I could see.
I think BMW have modified the shaft now following GS failures and us sensible riders on RS have benefited.
AlanM
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Olgry1 - 01-15-2021
Alan you are smarter than I was earlier this year.
A few days after Christmas I decided to lube the rear spline on my 2019 R1250 RT. The 1250 currently has 17K mile on it.
I had previously lubed the rear spline on my 2015 RT when it had 30K miles on it and at the time the process was relatively easy.
When I dropped the final drive this year I had the same issue you did as the rear spline on my RT did not separate in the final drive. Unlike you I got more aggressive in my efforts to get the rear spline to separate.
Long story short I was too aggressive and the front spline separated from the transmission output shaft. After hours of trying to resolve the issue I called called my dealership and spoke with the owner. I asked him if they would send a mechanic to my house (50 miles away) to fix my "broken" bike. I told them basically I would pay whatever it takes. The service manager called me back that day and asked if I was handy. After telling him I was he gave me some tips on how to resolve the situation with the front spline, with the help of an assistant, myself. My wife and I tried but were not able to resolve the issue and reattach the front spline to the transmission output shaft.
I called the service manager back and asked a few question about changing the process to access the front spline through the front boot area. He was again very helpful and gave me the answers I was hoping would facilitate access to the front spline. In an effort to save our marriage and my posterior end
I called my brother to assist me.After a few hours we were able to complete the task and reattached the front spline to the transmission. As we gentle lowered the final drive the rear spline detached in the process. There was no visible indication of any rust on the rear spline. Needless to say after numerous hours of work I was ecstatic the bike was no longer "broken".
The RT is back together and ready to go.
Suggestions to any who may have a similar experience:
Use a good penetration oil on the rear spline and let it sit overnight. I used PB Blaster.
Do not be too aggressive in trying to separate the rear spine unit.
The front spline does have a spring clip and it is not designed to move back and forth as the suspension moves. The rear spline does not have have a spring clip and is designed to move back and forth as the suspension moves.
Not all dealerships are strictly about the money and choosing a customer oriented dealership has made the difference for me.