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+---- Thread: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines (/thread-259.html)
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - AlanM - 01-16-2021
Olgry 1,
I think I found a clip on both ends. Slight movement very free to a stop on rear joint. The length change with suspension movement is all in the centre spline part of shaft. A cardan should not move at the outer u/joint halfs. IMHO BMW have found that the final drive u/joint has been sliding at the driven end and have fitted spring circlip to stop this. I did find about 1/8" of movement there but 1" plus on the centre spline section. Both were well lubed. Spray can of white Lithium grease all round so when the carrier evaporates a nice film of grease is left on everthing.
Glad to hear you have fixed your bike, but have a look in after another 10000 miles, I know I will.
AlanM
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Grumpy Goat - 01-16-2021
(01-16-2021, 07:03 AM)AlanM Wrote: IMHO BMW have found that the final drive u/joint has been sliding at the driven end and have fitted spring circlip to stop this.
Not so sure. The parts fiche only indicates one circlip at the forward end.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - AlanM - 01-16-2021
Grumpy,
That picture is the opposite of what I found. The large dia with internal spline was at the rear not at the gearbox end. Plus there was a defined stop when felt the final drive u/joint fitting.
PS.
not relevant to post but I was 40 years in industrial gear and u/joint manufacture, starting as apprentice in 1954 finishing as factory manager.
Alan
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - AlanM - 01-16-2021
(01-16-2021, 12:04 PM)AlanM Wrote: Grumpy,
That picture is the opposite of what I found. The large dia with internal spline was at the rear not at the gearbox end. Plus there was a defined stop when felt the final drive u/joint fitting.
PS.
not relevant to post but I was 40 years in industrial gear and u/joint manufacture, starting as apprentice in 1954 finishing as factory manager.
Alan
Grumpy, Sorry re last bit but have had a Very Large G & T plus a couple of glasses of red to celebrate my Covid vaccine without any issues yesterday so am a bit tippsy or pissed.
AlanM
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Olgry1 - 01-16-2021
Alan,
On the transmission output shaft spline there is circular groove around the diameter of the shaft. On the final drive spline I did not see any circular groove nor did I feel one when I applied a moly based grease to the splines.
It is possible I missed the groove as I was pretty tired.
My RT1250 is a 2019.....maybe there was a change after 2019.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Grumpy Goat - 01-16-2021
(01-16-2021, 12:19 PM)AlanM Wrote: Grumpy, Sorry re last bit but have had a Very Large G & T plus a couple of glasses of red to celebrate my Covid vaccine without any issues yesterday so am a bit tippsy or pissed.
AlanM
Hahaha ... no problem and no offence taken. I don't have an R1250RS and so I can only rely on the microfiche.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - AlanM - 01-17-2021
Hi all,
I think we will have to wait until another member gives this job a go on a 2019 or newer MY.
I am not going to have another look for a while yet. About late 2022 possibly.
Will an official BMW spokesman tell us if there is a change???
AlanM
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Grumpy Goat - 02-27-2021
UPDATE:
I am in the middle of the job right now and can confirm that on the 2016 R1200RS there is a groove on the front spline only, and there is no groove on the final drive spline. So the microfiche diagram above is the same that is on my bike.
Moreover, there is no groove on the inside teeth of the front coupling, so the circlip only fits into the groove on the spline and relies on a "friction fit" against the teeth of the front coupling ...? That low resistance is for what? As the swingarm moves up and down the "grip" provided by the circlip should resist nothing ... seems useless to me.
The problem I have is that I don't know where my circlip is.
It was not on the front spline and it was not in the front coupling. It may have dislodged when I pulled out the shaft and is lying somewhere inside the shaft housing.This is a PITA since I fought to get the front coupling back on to the front spline, now I have to pull it off and go searching for the circlip with a magnet. All for an apparently useless part ...?
There will be a video of the high points of the job.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Olgry1 - 02-27-2021
Wayne sorry to hear about your problems with the front clip. That has got to be frustrating especially after starting the reassembly price.
Hope the clip is easy to find.
John
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Grumpy Goat - 02-27-2021
(02-27-2021, 05:03 PM)Olgry1 Wrote: Wayne sorry to hear about your problems with the front clip. That has got to be frustrating especially after starting the reassembly price.
Hope the clip is easy to find.
John I have a feeling it was never installed. When I went back to the bike after posting the above account, I used a magnet on an extendable pole and it retrieved nothing. Of course I still had the shaft installed back onto the front spline.
I decided that with the ease at which it came off the front spline while still being attached to the final drive spline, it was likely never there. Most I can figure is that it is there to provide some resistance so that when the final drive is rotated down, it stays attached to the front spline. But with no groove in the front coupling, there would be no "click" engagement even if the circlip was installed on the spline. Bike was fine on the short test ride afterwards.
I'll install one in 12k miles when I do this service again, just for completeness. Meanwhile I am now out of Castrol rear drive oil. Have to buy some more.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - mspratz - 02-28-2021
(02-27-2021, 12:33 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: UPDATE:Wayne, I just had a look at the gearbox output shaft in the fiche, and it appears that the groove for the snapring is almost at the very end of the shaft (outlined in red below), with by far the bulk of the splines completely in front of it, so perhaps there is no groove in the inside of the splines of the front end of the driveshaft, because those spines are designed to slide entirely over the snapring.
Moreover, there is no groove on the inside teeth of the front coupling, so the circlip only fits into the groove on the spline and relies on a "friction fit" against the teeth of the front coupling ...?
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - darrell - 02-28-2021
Here is a photo the transmission with the judder output shaft used in RS bikes built after June 2016. This is what was installed in my bike at 93,000 miles. That snap ring serves some purpose. I’ll visit with my mechanic on Tuesday as he has replaced 3 broken drive shafts in the past year on bikes.[attachment=1055]
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - mspratz - 02-28-2021
Here is a better view of the gearbox output shaft from the BMW service manual, with an arrow pointing at the snapring groove.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - mspratz - 02-28-2021
When I bought my 2016 R1200RS in September of 2016, the dealer had at least one other R1200RS of the same color and model year. As it turns out, mine was manufactured in October of 2015, so it was one of the first 2016 model year, and was almost a year old when I took delivery. I did not at the time think to ask what the build date was.
Based on Darrell's experience with his transmission replacement, and little gems like this that I keep seeing in the BMW service manual:
Next time I buy a new BMW motorcycle, I'm going to make sure I take the one that has the most recent build date that the dealer has.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - darrell - 02-28-2021
(02-28-2021, 11:37 AM)mspratz Wrote: When I bought my 2016 R1200RS in September of 2016, the dealer had at least one other R1200RS of the same color and model year. As it turns out, mine was manufactured in October of 2015, so it was one of the first 2016 model year, and was almost a year old when I took delivery. I did not at the time think to ask what the build date was.Or better yet order one to be built knowing it usually takes 10 - 12 weeks to build and deliver to your dealer. Then you know you have the latest at that time.
Based on Darrell's experience with his transmission replacement, and little gems like this that I keep seeing in the BMW service manual:
Next time I buy a new BMW motorcycle, I'm going to make sure I take the one that has the most recent build date that the dealer has.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Grumpy Goat - 02-28-2021
(02-28-2021, 11:17 AM)mspratz Wrote: Wayne, I just had a look at the gearbox output shaft in the fiche, and it appears that the groove for the snapring is almost at the very end of the shaft (outlined in red below), with by far the bulk of the splines completely in front of it, so perhaps there is no groove in the inside of the splines of the front end of the driveshaft, because those spines are designed to slide entirely over the snapring.
Yes, after posting the above I figured that had to be it, judging by how far up the output shaft the coupling slid. Most likely the aft edge of the coupling's teeth rest on the circlip as it sits in the groove of the output shaft. Here is a picture of what my output shaft looked like prior to greasing.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - mspratz - 02-28-2021
(02-28-2021, 11:42 AM)darrell Wrote: Or better yet order one to be built knowing it usually takes 10 - 12 weeks to build and deliver to your dealer. Then you know you have the latest at that time.True, but how much negotiating power do you have in that situation to bring down the price? I'm a lousy negotiator, but even I was able to get $2000 off the list price. Perhaps that was because it was toward the end of the season and they wanted to unload stock.
I guess maybe there is still room to negotiate before you place the order. How has it worked for you Darrell?
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - darrell - 02-28-2021
(02-28-2021, 05:02 PM)mspratz Wrote: .So not to detract from this thread on drive shafts I’ll send you an email on my thoughts on pricing when ordering a motorcycle.
I guess maybe there is still room to negotiate before you place the order. How has it worked for you Darrell?
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - Ray - 02-28-2021
Maybe you or Grumpy can start the new thread on new bike purchase. I suspect some sales folks who watch the forum will not be able to resist the urge to asvise us on how to make their lives easier.
E.g., ordering a new bike saves a lot of overhead and worry about floor stock for the dealer.
RE: Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines - AlanM - 03-03-2021
Hi all and especially Grumpy.
I have had a nagging feeling that I was wrong in my last post, so I have dropped the FD again.
I am a muppet what is there is standard BUT FD will not drop to disengage rear UJ hub.
Worse than that my finding that the front of the cardan was sliding is correct. So either the 'C' clip at the front has never been snapped into place or is not there. The pictures show at least 3/4" sliding on the transmission end. This movement I think is preventing the FD end disengaging.
Also about a tablespoon of water in the bottom of the swingarm, this greasing is not in the maintainance shedule at all so dealer will not look in here. Do I tell my dealer that the cardan is not right and I found it myself as I do not wish a problem in the future because it will fail when 100 miles from home. Bike has only 6900 miles on and is half way through warranty.