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+--- Thread: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS (/thread-1034.html)
Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Grumpy Goat - 12-12-2023
Came across this new video on YouTube. Apparently this guy is a certified BMW Master Technician. Nothing specific on the failure itself, just that the broken shaft was removed from the bike and a new one installed. What I found interesting is how completely the forward U-joint was broken (click here to jump ahead to the reveal) yet it sounded as though the owner was able to ride it enough to "feel vibration in the footpegs". He was lucky!
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Oldrider51 - 12-12-2023
Wish he had stated how many miles were on the bike.
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Grumpy Goat - 12-12-2023
(12-12-2023, 05:01 AM)Oldrider51 Wrote: Wish he had stated how many miles were on the bike.
You and me both. I will leave him a comment there and see if he recalls ...
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Pyrrho - 12-12-2023
Later down in the comments he mentioned 20K.
First time I've seen any of his videos was today, and it was this video. If he's a master tech then why didn't he reapply any boot sealant? Anyway, another thing in the comments was multiple other people reporting that there was a service bulletin issued two months ago (Oct) that stated:
- BMW recommends but doesn't require drive shaft spline inspection every 12K (not covered by warranty or BMW)
- BMW recommends and requires drive shaft replacement every 30K (service & parts covered by BMW) for life
I just had a 24K service at dealer in late Oct and they didn't mention this at all. I just looked on the BMW MOA forums and didn't see anything there, either. This isn't supposed to apply to the new 1300 transmissions as they weren't marketed as maintenance free, whereas ours were. Does anyone have any corroborating stories, or better yet, links to official info on this?
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Grumpy Goat - 12-12-2023
(12-12-2023, 07:35 PM)Pyrrho Wrote: Later down in the comments he mentioned 20K.
Noted. Thanks for mentioning that ... 20k is no miles for that to happen, so I guess it is random and the luck of the draw.
(12-12-2023, 07:35 PM)Pyrrho Wrote: First time I've seen any of his videos was today, and it was this video. If he's a master tech then why didn't he reapply any boot sealant?
Not everything is shown in a video especially if it is not an instructional one, and I didn't see this one as such ... just a video about switching a shaft after a suspected driveshaft failure. Many bits are often edited out to keep the focus where it needs to be.
(12-12-2023, 07:35 PM)Pyrrho Wrote: Anyway, another thing in the comments was multiple other people reporting that there was a service bulletin issued two months ago (Oct) that stated:
- BMW recommends but doesn't require drive shaft spline inspection every 12K (not covered by warranty or BMW)
- BMW recommends and requires drive shaft replacement every 30K (service & parts covered by BMW) for life
I just had a 24K service at dealer in late Oct and they didn't mention this at all. ...
I believe that this came up in a previous discussion where it was said that this was the new approach (i.e. no longer maintenance-free) going forward for the new GSs, and us RS owners were waiting for it to be made to apply to us as well.
Maybe others can re-confirm what the BMW Motorrad position is regarding the RS. I do believe that there have been no reports of RS owners having received any communication (letter) from BMW advising of the existence of any issue, and that they should being the bike in for inspection or the fitting of the duck valve, etc. I guess the squeaky wheel approach has to be taken.
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - c10 - 12-13-2023
Master tech gets thrown around loosely. While @ yamaha we were taught to never pry on a engine case. I saw where he pulls up the BMW info use suitable tool , however your not instructed to pry off the engine cast aluminum case with a hardened steel pry bar.
Judging off looks and performance stickers there might be some owner / rider induced and accelerated wear on this part .
Note Center stand has been pulled to reduce weight . Most RS owners want this
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Grumpy Goat - 12-13-2023
(12-13-2023, 06:06 PM)c10 Wrote: ... While @ yamaha we were taught to never pry on a engine case. I saw where he pulls up the BMW info use suitable tool , however your not instructed to pry off the engine cast aluminum case with a hardened steel pry bar. ...
IIRC, he did not actually show the prying that resulted in the shaft coming loose. If it were me, I would put a thin piece of wood as the bearing surface because, due to the location in way of the "V" of the frame the pry bar would actually be bearing on the frame and not on the engine case.
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - c10 - 12-14-2023
Wayne then he recently edited out due to comments . When I watched it he put the pry bar on the engine case to pry the shaft off the splines .
Looking at video its still there @ 6 min mark ( 6 :20 )
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Grumpy Goat - 12-14-2023
(12-14-2023, 05:07 AM)c10 Wrote: Wayne then he recently edited out due to comments . When I watched it he put the pry bar on the engine case to pry the shaft off the splines .
Looking at video its still there @ 6 min mark ( 6 :20 )
OK I see what you are referring to at 6:20, but just before that you can see where the bar is wanting to brace again / scratch the frame. In my experience, the location is such that in order to pry that shaft off the forward spline you cannot effectively brace against the flange of the transmission. The latter is too far forward. You have to brace off the frame and even then that it is at the wrong angle, but with a shim in there it can be done.
Anyway, your point is well taken about not bracing off the [softer] aluminum flange with the [harder] steel pry bar / screwdriver. I wouldn't do that either.
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Pyrrho - 12-14-2023
(12-13-2023, 06:06 PM)c10 Wrote: Master tech gets thrown around loosely.
A while ago I looked into becoming a BMW Motorrad mechanic. Enroll for about three months at a BMW-licensed school like UTI, pass some tests and you're a BMW technician. Follow that by being employed at a BMW dealership as a technician for at least five years and congratulations, you're now a Master Technician. There's no re-testing required later, either.
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Pyrrho - 12-15-2023
I visited my dealer and asked the service manager about all this cardan shaft business. Here's what I learned:
- It wasn't a service bulletin, it was an addendum to a revised set of documentation covering service procedures that were released in January of this year regarding premature input shaft failures on the GSes.
- BMW isn't recommending shaft inspection, they're recommending use of their special tool and procedure to determine if the shaft requires replacement (see below).
- As I brought my bike in for service while still under warranty and BMW had no record of my bike being tested yet, they performed the test under warranty without asking (mine passed). If it was out of warranty or had already been tested, I would have to ask for it, and pay for 1.5 hr of service to perform the test.
- BMW will cover shaft replacement within the first 30K miles if the shaft fails, once per bike if out of warranty.
I was told under no circumstance would these types of shaft failures be sudden. I'd feel a vibration in the swingarm progressively worsen until I knew something was wrong and it needed to be looked at. While BMW no longer refers to their paralever system as maintenance free, they still have not introduced any spline or U-joint inspection or lubing procedures, just the new pass/fail resonance test.
As an aside of possible interest, I was also told a little more of the behind the scenes surrounding those shaft replacements earlier this year. Apparently it was a big mess. The dealers weren't given any heads up prior. The testing kits were late getting out to dealers. Some US dealers got a jump on things and ordered over a hundred cardan shafts per dealership just so they'd have inventory; which left a lot of other dealerships with service departments full of bikes and angry customers waiting on parts. After that, what originally was a stop sale order and official safety recall, turned into a service bulletin. They wouldn't say why directly, but the implication is clear it was a CYA move by BMW NA to stop pissing off customers and dealers.
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Grumpy Goat - 12-15-2023
(12-14-2023, 11:22 PM)Pyrrho Wrote:(12-13-2023, 06:06 PM)c10 Wrote: Master tech gets thrown around loosely.
A while ago I looked into becoming a BMW Motorrad mechanic. Enroll for about three months at a BMW-licensed school like UTI, pass some tests and you're a BMW technician. Follow that by being employed at a BMW dealership as a technician for at least five years and congratulations, you're now a Master Technician. There's no re-testing required later, either.
Sounds reasonable. It's not rocket science, especially these days when they are basically parts replacers with a service manual to back them up, for work that the company is then expected to stand behind. Something goes wrong with the bike and you bring it in to a dealership, the company's policy would be to repair or replace in such a way that is warrantable and the vehicle continues to operate in a satisfactory manner. In order to do this, they need someone acceptably well trained to follow instructions in a service manual and get the job completed in a timeframe that makes a profit. Would be nice if there was some re-testing or monitoring of competence afterwards as well, but I suppose that costs money.
If one wants the job done to perfection, with each and every step pored over and examined in infinite detail while musing on the ways that the design could be improved this way or that, then that is not the job for the BMW technician. It's the job for the experts on the Internet.
My 2 cents.
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Grumpy Goat - 12-15-2023
(12-15-2023, 12:27 AM)Pyrrho Wrote: I visited my dealer and asked the service manager about all this cardan shaft business. Here's what I learned:
....
This is the most clear and useful synopsis of the issue that I have seen. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Lee - 12-15-2023
(12-15-2023, 12:27 AM)Pyrrho Wrote:
- As I brought my bike in for service while still under warranty and BMW had no record of my bike being tested yet, they performed the test under warranty without asking (mine passed). If it was out of warranty or had already been tested, I would have to ask for it, and pay for 1.5 hr of service to perform the test.
That's a good change.
Last year or this spring I asked the Kansas City service manager and he said if a customer asked to have the drive shaft checked it was only warranty if the bike was a GS or Authority RT.
I was planning on having the shop check ours next year while they're still in warranty whether I had to pay for it or not.
1.5 hours sounds long for the test. They should be able to remove the driveshaft and lube it in that time.
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Grumpy Goat - 12-15-2023
(12-15-2023, 10:25 AM)Lee Wrote: Last year or this spring I asked the Kansas City service manager and he said if a customer asked to have the drive shaft checked it was only warranty if the bike was a GS or Authority RT.
And that's the part that ticks me off. If there were no failures of RS shafts I could almost understand but that is not the case.
RE: Video of Driveshaft failure on R1200 ... this one on an RS - Oldrider51 - 12-15-2023
There is a similar post over on the BMWSportTouring website under the Wethead section. There is video about this that was posted in July 2022 and it seems to apply to only certain R1200 and R1250 liquid cooled GSs and RT-P through October 21. You might want to take a gander over there.