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Face Masks and Breathing - darrell - 08-10-2020
About 12 years ago I had nasal surgery to remove polyps from my nasal passages and to clean out my sinuses. Yes it was very painful during the healing process but I was mouth breathing and knew it was not the way I wanted to live. This brought to my attention our now wearing masks often for long periods of time and if we are breathing correctly. Here is some information to consider if interested in reviewing.
You can do the candle test with all your masks! If you cannot blow out a candle while wearing them, even when blowing as hard as you can it is likely working to stop the droplets.
Apparently the main difference between people who struggle to breathe with masks and people who do not is whether they breathe primarily through their noses or their mouths. People who breathe through their mouths tend to have a harder time wearing a mask. (Not that it isn’t possible to breathe, but it feels more constricted.) I’ve been paying closer attention to my breathing the last few days. Even when I exercise, I tend to be a nose breather.
Assuming there is no medical reason why you cannot breathe through your nose, experts suggest you practice mindful breathing through your nose until it becomes more natural and a habit. This is not only helpful for wearing masks, but in general. People who breathe through their noses tend to get sick less often overall simply because the nose hair is intended to serve as a built-in filter. In addition, breathing through your nose is calming. Breathing through your mouth can increase anxiety levels.
This brief article summarizes some good information: https://www.sinusandnasalspecialists.com/mouth-breathing-vs-nose-breathing/
And this article is useful for helping children adjust to wearing a mask. It is also helpful for adults: https://www.childrensmn.org/2020/07/15/breathing-tips-while-wearing-mask
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - 36654 - 08-10-2020
(08-10-2020, 07:18 AM)darrell Wrote: You can do the candle test with all your masks! If you cannot blow out a candle while wearing them, even when blowing as hard as you can it is likely working to stop the droplets.
Great stuff. I've got two different brands of re-usable masks. One brand is from a California underwear company (Thompson Tee's) that's two layers of tee-shirt jersey material. I'm pretty confident I could blow-out a candle with those masks. The second brand is from RKA luggage and uses the Kaiser Permanente Spec design. It's a pleated, double layer mask made from 65/35 twill cloth. Darn little is going thru that material. It also has a pocket for a hepa filter.
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Lee - 08-10-2020
(08-10-2020, 07:18 AM)darrell Wrote: You can do the candle test with all your masks! If you cannot blow out a candle while wearing them, even when blowing as hard as you can it is likely working to stop the droplets.
That's what they recommended at first. I saw a report 2 weeks ago that said it's better if you can plow out the candle. If the mask restricts too much you can blow droplets out the edges of a mask when you sneeze.
Hard to keep current with recommendations and to know which expert is correct.
Debbie had been making masks with three layers but plans to try two layers.
Ray, what are your thoughts?
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Ray - 08-10-2020
(08-10-2020, 10:18 AM)Lee Wrote: Debbie had been making masks with three layers but plans to try two layers.My immediate thought is that Olgry will probably be our resident expert on this....
Ray, what are your thoughts?
My wife has been making beautiful masks with space for a filter. Jo-Ann Fabrics has had a hard time keeping her stocked.
Like any filter, higher resistance suggests higher efficiency, and might be desirable. Debbie might want to keep a few of the 3-layered masks around for this winter's Flu/SARS-CoV-2 "perfect storm," which will probably come as a Christmas present to the country....
Reminder:
A mask may not protect the wearer, but it may keep the wearer from spreading the virus to others. - CDC
For more about wearing cloth masksClick here.
The CDC guidelines distinguish masks from "filtering facepiece respirators" (like N95). In making their recommendations, the CDC considers a mask to be cloth or the equivalent of a surgical mask.
For a list of the difference between simple surgical or cloth masks and NIOSH N95 (or equivalent Chinese KN95) masks/"respirators" see below or Click here
At this point, it is all about reducing risk as much as possible. We wear masks because we respect each other (most of the time) and try to keep our germ-laden respiratory droplets to ourselves. Unimpeded, and depending on airflow, most of the big droplets that escape fall over 10-15 min. to surfaces at a range of from 2 meters (the 6 foot rule) to 4 meters. Those surfaces are now contaminated, and if they are plastic or steel, sometimes for days.
The problem is that some droplets become aerosolized (<1 micron) and can linger infectiously in stagnant air (indoors) for hours. So in the hospital, I wear an N95 mask that only lets through 5% of the 300 nm particles (but more of the smaller aerosols). You won't hear much from the CDC or WHO about aerosolization because there are not enough N95 masks to go around. But, even a cloth mask significantly reduces aerosol production, so we are back to wearing masks to protect others.
In the end, one of the biggest differences between masks I wear at work and 2-3 layer cloth masks are fit. Most of us have had to wear masks for some dusty task or another around the house or work, so we know fit is everything. The sides need to match and ride the shape of the face sufficiently that we can't inhale through the gaps. A good nose piece is essential.
All that said, I appreciated Darrell's comments that recognize we might need to practice comfortable breathing with our masks - no matter what type we use. The more we wear them, the more comfortable we'll be. Spend a day wearing a mask, practice not touching the mask, practice breathing, learn not to sneeze.... A prolonged period will also ensure you have a comfortable fit and are not allergic to any of the components.
Here's a pretty good, recent review from the Journal Science. If you can't get through on this link and want a copy for educational purposes only, let me know, and I will send you a PDF version.
Reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2 Kimberly A. Prather, Chia C. Wang, Robert T. Schooley
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Lee - 08-10-2020
(08-10-2020, 04:52 PM)Ray Wrote: In the end, one of the biggest differences between masks I wear at work and 2-3 layer cloth masks are fit.
Thanks for your comments, all your links work. I need to go back and reread the last one.
It took Debbie a couple tries to get masks to fit us well and were comfortable. I'm guessing she has made 3 or 4 different shapes for people at work so they fit well and several more sizes for kids.
It's hard to keep up on what's best but I think something is better than nothing.
Just like octane for our bikes, 87 is better than walking
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Grumpy Goat - 08-10-2020
Great post Ray. Thanks for taking the time and sharing this info.
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - 36654 - 08-10-2020
(08-10-2020, 04:52 PM)Ray Wrote:(08-10-2020, 10:18 AM)Lee Wrote: Debbie had been making masks with three layers but plans to try two layers.My immediate thought is that Olgry will probably be our resident expert on this....
Ray, what are your thoughts?
My wife has been making beautiful masks with space for a filter. Jo-Ann Fabrics has had a hard time keeping her stocked.
Like any filter, higher resistance suggests higher efficiency, and might be desirable. Debbie might want to keep a few of the 3-layered masks around for this winter's Flu/SARS-CoV-2 "perfect storm," which will probably come as a Christmas present to the country....
When you mention 3-layer masks, is the middle layer a 95%BFE filter material equivalent or something else?
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Ray - 08-11-2020
(08-10-2020, 07:44 PM)36654 Wrote: When you mention 3-layer masks, is the middle layer a 95%BFE filter material equivalent or something else?I was referring to the masks Debbie was making.
A full-mask layer with bacterial filtration efficiency of 95% at 3 microns would certainly add some extra protection but might decrease breathability or washability. (I usually avoid the term BFE on public fora to avoid irritating some of my Middle Eastern friends....) That said an N95 mask will filter 95% of particles at 0.3 microns.
We use a spray bottle to test the fit of our masks to make sure we can't smell or taste the aerosol. A similar test of an effective filter might be whether it blocks the smell of smell cigarrette smoke.
Hopefully by this winter, when the virus will seem to be everywhere, we will all have access to N95 full facepiece respirators or better when in dry, indoor environments with others. And don't forget your goggles....
Hopefully this CDC will maintain sufficient funding to provide statistically and financially reasonable ways for us to cut risk. I certainly don't want the balance between scientific statistics and finances to be left to those in Washington, who still move their lips when they read and count on fingers and toes.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Olgry1 - 08-11-2020
Ray was being kind. I am not an expert but do agree totally with Ray that a mask that fits your face, especially around your nose is very important.
My breathing and lung capacity is 60% of what it should be hence the supplemental O2. I try to get a mask that fits and then try to squeeze in the O2 tubing. So using a mask that works makes it difficult for me to breathe.
When I was working 7 years ago my staff would get fit tested For N95 mask as Ray described. They would wear the mask and then a sweet solution would be sprayed to see if they could taste the sweetness. Over 50% of the time Staff could taste the sweetness. Those employees were not allowed to go into airborne isolation rooms.
I am a percentage guy and do everything I can do reduce the possibly of getting Covid.
My apologies if this is a disjointed reply but the wife are on a three day get away and she is hungry. ?
Face Masks and Breathing - Ray - 08-11-2020
Good to know you are out and about. I simply meant that with your background, I suspected that by the time we met you would have read everything available on this subject amd asked a lot of guys smarter than I about what to do.
I wanted to add that some of the tests have demonstrated that masks similar to Debbie's are as effective as the 95% bacterial filtration efficiency, surgical masks.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Olgry1 - 08-11-2020
(08-11-2020, 07:50 AM)Ray Wrote: Good to know you are out and about. I simply meant that with your background, I suspected that by the time we met you would have read everything available on this subject amd asked a lot of guys smarter than I about what to do.
I wanted to add that some of the tests have demonstrated that masks similar to Debbie's are as effective as the 95% bacterial filtration efficiency, surgical masks.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
For myself I have decided that social distance whether inside or outside (for me as close to 12 - 13 ‘ as possible per your colleague)
is the most important thing I can do.
Wearing a good tight fitting mask that I can still breathe through adequately is a close second. That is due to my personal difficulty breathing and associated drop in O2 saturation in my blood stream. As you mention Ray a good cloth mask similar to Debbie’s is still very effective against Covid.
As a result I have not read as much about masks as other things related to Covid 19. I have read that one of the drugs that I am on Fenofibrate (or is it Ph not F.) seems to help reduce the likely hood of blood clots in the lungs in Covid 19 patients. It reduces lipids (fat) in the blood stream which reduces possible clotting. This information was from a Doctor in Israel. It was nice to hear good news about Covid that applied to me personally.
I had gotten to the point I did not want to leave the house because of Covid. Finally decided I would do everything I could to keep healthy but to also live and truly enjoy life.
Ray what did you write in another message “time is life” ?
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Ray - 08-11-2020
Almost forgot - I wanted to pass on the recommendation of one of my friends in critical care (who wears an industrial respirator from the hardware store), to try to be satisfied with what you have for personal protection and to avoid the psychological trauma of personal protection envy otherwise known as P.P. envy....
(Well, it was funny at the time.)
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - 36654 - 08-11-2020
(08-11-2020, 07:50 AM)Ray Wrote: Good to know you are out and about. I simply meant that with your background, I suspected that by the time we met you would have read everything available on this subject amd asked a lot of guys smarter than I about what to do.
I wanted to add that some of the tests have demonstrated that masks similar to Debbie's are as effective as the 95% bacterial filtration efficiency, surgical masks.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Since I have the RKA masks with the pocket for a filter, I'm trying to find the filter material and, also, wondering about its added value.
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Olgry1 - 08-11-2020
Thanks Ray I enjoyed that. It did remind of a picture that I sent my old boss. It was a picture of a porta-potty owned by a French company.The company’s name was “Oui Oui Porta-Potties“.
True story... people on the train to Chicago were wondering why I was laughing so hard.
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Lee - 08-11-2020
(08-11-2020, 11:00 AM)36654 Wrote: Since I have the RKA masks with the pocket for a filter, I'm trying to find the filter material and, also, wondering about its added value.
Would a Hepa filter work?
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - 36654 - 08-11-2020
(08-11-2020, 11:58 AM)Lee Wrote:(08-11-2020, 11:00 AM)36654 Wrote: Since I have the RKA masks with the pocket for a filter, I'm trying to find the filter material and, also, wondering about its added value.
Would a Hepa filter work?
Supposedly, if it doesn't have any fibreglass.
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Lee - 08-11-2020
(08-11-2020, 12:20 PM)36654 Wrote:(08-11-2020, 11:58 AM)Lee Wrote:(08-11-2020, 11:00 AM)36654 Wrote: Since I have the RKA masks with the pocket for a filter, I'm trying to find the filter material and, also, wondering about its added value.
Would a Hepa filter work?
Supposedly, if it doesn't have any fibreglass.
I forgot about washing. If it was me, I would want to use a material I could wash on a regular basis.
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - 36654 - 08-11-2020
(08-11-2020, 04:19 PM)Lee Wrote:(08-11-2020, 12:20 PM)36654 Wrote:(08-11-2020, 11:58 AM)Lee Wrote:(08-11-2020, 11:00 AM)36654 Wrote: Since I have the RKA masks with the pocket for a filter, I'm trying to find the filter material and, also, wondering about its added value.
Would a Hepa filter work?
Supposedly, if it doesn't have any fibreglass.
I forgot about washing. If it was me, I would want to use a material I could wash on a regular basis.
I assume the filter material will be replaced when the mask is washed.
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - darrell - 08-11-2020
Not sure how many of you saw todays information on the tests completed on 14 different types of masks. 13 were better than no mask to some varying degrees from 95% effective for the N95 on down. One mask being used by many is actually worse then no mask and that is the fleece neck gator some of us wear when riding. These gators actually break up the larger droplets and emit many more smaller droplets.
RE: Face Masks and Breathing - Lee - 08-12-2020
(08-11-2020, 07:22 PM)36654 Wrote:(08-11-2020, 04:19 PM)Lee Wrote:(08-11-2020, 12:20 PM)36654 Wrote:(08-11-2020, 11:58 AM)Lee Wrote:(08-11-2020, 11:00 AM)36654 Wrote: Since I have the RKA masks with the pocket for a filter, I'm trying to find the filter material and, also, wondering about its added value.
Would a Hepa filter work?
Supposedly, if it doesn't have any fibreglass.
I forgot about washing. If it was me, I would want to use a material I could wash on a regular basis.
I assume the filter material will be replaced when the mask is washed.
Hepa material is not cheap so it will get expensive to replace it every time you wash the mask.