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+--- Thread: Black widow headers (/thread-703.html)
Black widow headers - NHrider - 04-25-2022
I recieved and installed Black Widow headers today. I took photos through out the installation process. Right side header needed to persuaded because the hole didnt line up perfectly with the stud. It didnt take much to overcome for me. Though I am a relatively skilled home mechanic. The center hanger was also a little snug too.
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RE: Black widow headers - Grumpy Goat - 04-25-2022
Looking forward to the finished product on the bike and riding impressions.
UPDATE - Never mind ... I saw the other post in the "Slip on ..." thread. Cool.
Black widow headers - NHrider - 04-26-2022
I didnt get many post install pics because i just wanted to ride it. Ill get some later.
-The welds all have good penetration. As you can see in my first post, the welds at the head flange to no protude into the flow. The OEM flange welds protrude in the the flow path quite a bit. That alone must make a measurable difference in flow.
-Total install time was about 1 hour 45 minutes in my driveway on the sidestand.
-The O2 sensors were at precisely the correct angle. I was very happy to see that becasue the room for error is almost none.
- I re-used the exhaust gasket at the head and I have no exhaust leaks.
-The exhaust seems to stick out the back almost 1 inch further that stock. This would make it impossible to get a muffler with a fixed mounting point to line up with the mounting bracket on the bike. Luckily, my muffler mounting point can be moved.
-I had to fight the right side flange onto the head. The holes holes were slightly mis-aligned. The cause seems to be from the pipe that connects the two headers was a slightly the wrong angle. Perhaps I got a bad one. Either way it, took me probably 10-15 extra minutes of observing the issue, and then forcing it into place. The left side mated up no problem.
The boost in power in unbelievable. It does not stop pulling. I like to pretend this is a sport bike when I'm not taking long trips and these pipes gave it a sport bike feel. Im sure the power is not specific to this exhaust, but for $375 USD. I was not excpecting the ride to change this much.
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RE: Black widow headers - Pyrrho - 04-26-2022
Are you going to tune this? Do you know what to expect in terms of HP & torque changes?
RE: Black widow headers - NHrider - 04-26-2022
(04-26-2022, 08:59 AM)Pyrrho Wrote: Are you going to tune this? Do you know what to expect in terms of HP & torque changes?I am probably going to use Brentuning to tune it. I dont know if I will ever dyno it. If I do, I'll be sure to post up the charts. Unfortunately I dont have a stock dyno run on my bike.
I can tell you with out putting it on a dyno that the power feels like has increased and the power delivery is much much more enjoyable when compared to stock. To be honest, the stock power curve was so boring to me, I was considering other motorcycles options. Not anymore. The headers really made that big of a difference to me.
After talking with the guy at Brentuning, I found that they have been developing velocity stacks. They are going to start manufacturing them soon. I havent heard a price on them, but im hoping they're around the price of the Dynojet VS. I would rather buy from Brentuning since they are relatively local to me(only an hour away).
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RE: Black widow headers - Pyrrho - 04-26-2022
I'm also considering using Brentune with aftermarket muffler & headers (de-CAT but keeping the valve). A stage 2 w/velocity stacks looks VERY impressive on paper but would like more detailed owner/ride reports before I invest.
RE: Black widow headers - NHrider - 04-27-2022
(04-26-2022, 03:15 PM)Pyrrho Wrote: I'm also considering using Brentune with aftermarket muffler & headers (de-CAT but keeping the valve). A stage 2 w/velocity stacks looks VERY impressive on paper but would like more detailed owner/ride reports before I invest.What velocity stack dyno charts have you seen? Can you share them? I havent seen one.
The extra power is cetainly nice, but as its been stated many times on R1200 forums; the improvement to the power delivery and power curve is the most enjoyable result of modifications to these bikes. Im happy with the way my RS rides now, and I would probably be happy with it forever in its current state.
That said I will still probably get velocity stacks because I cant restrain myself from modifying anything. I have a need to improve and tinker with everything I own. It gets expensive [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND COLD SWEAT]
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RE: Black widow headers - Pyrrho - 04-27-2022
(04-27-2022, 06:07 AM)NHrider Wrote: What velocity stack dyno charts have you seen? Can you share them? I havent seen one.
https://brentuningmoto.com/product/2019-2022-bmw-r1250-stage-2-w-bt-moto-velocity-stacks/
RE: Black widow headers - NHrider - 04-27-2022
(04-27-2022, 08:48 AM)Pyrrho Wrote:WOW!(04-27-2022, 06:07 AM)NHrider Wrote: What velocity stack dyno charts have you seen? Can you share them? I havent seen one.
https://brentuningmoto.com/product/2019-2022-bmw-r1250-stage-2-w-bt-moto-velocity-stacks/
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Black widow headers - NHrider - 04-27-2022
That price really hurts
Look at the dynojet ones:
https://www.dynojet.com/velocity-stack-bmw-r1200-91012001/
One might make the argument that the Dynojet one make less power because it was using the factory tune. Or the tune is inferior compared to Brentuning. Or the dyno is different.
I personally would rather save the $250.
Edit: the DJ VS are carbon fiber as well. Oooooooo
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RE: Black widow headers - Pyrrho - 04-27-2022
I doubt you could get a Stage 2 tune using the DJ VSes without putting your bike on a dyno and paying for a custom tune. BT Moto's advantage is the tune that comes with. Besides, I don't think the DJ's fit the R1250 so I couldn't use them anyway.
This video was just released an hour ago, self-made "review" of the Stage 2 kit on a GS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyp50qNJFpc
I'm at work so will check it out tonight.
Black widow headers - NHrider - 04-27-2022
That video makes it look like it well worth it.
Someone correct me if im wrong, but i think the R1200 and R1250 have a extremely similar airbox. I think the velocity stacks can be interchangeble between the two.
Pyrrho, if you buy the Brentuning VS. Ill buy the DJ VS. We can take measurements of the stacks and compare the two.
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RE: Black widow headers - Grumpy Goat - 04-27-2022
(04-27-2022, 10:02 AM)Pyrrho Wrote: This video was just released an hour ago, self-made "review" of the Stage 2 kit on a GS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyp50qNJFpc
I'm at work so will check it out tonight.
Save yourself 12 minutes and use this link which starts are the 12:00 mark: https://youtu.be/Qyp50qNJFpc?t=719
Clearly he is a sport bike rider and is now getting acquainted with boxers and the mission profile of the GS.
That said, I do like BrenTuning and was there is (was?) actually a dealer subscribed to this Forum Community.
RE: Black widow headers - Pyrrho - 04-28-2022
(04-27-2022, 11:17 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: Save yourself 12 minutes and use this link which starts are the 12:00 mark: https://youtu.be/Qyp50qNJFpc?t=719
I watched as you suggested, but then re-watched from the beginning so as to appreciate the changes during different aspects of the ride. Helpfully, he re-rides the same route and isn't afraid to wring the F out of it so it was enjoyable regardless.
(04-27-2022, 10:49 AM)NHrider Wrote: That video makes it look like it well worth it.
Holy balls. Very interested now. Noted he said the tune kept the flapper open, and now I'm concerned a full de-CAT'd aftermarket exhaust would be too much with that, noise-wise.
(04-27-2022, 10:49 AM)NHrider Wrote: Someone correct me if im wrong, but i think the R1200 and R1250 have a extremely similar airbox. I think the velocity stacks can be interchangeble between the two.
I'd think so too, but then you'd think Dynojet would update their product info to reflect that? Hmm, I just revisited their website and when using the drop-downs to select what year bike you have, it maxes out at 2020. So... maybe?. On BT's stage 2 page it says "This stack kit will work on any BMW motorcycle with part number: 13718567190 for its airbox". Checking https://www.shopbmwmotorcycles.com/oem-parts/bmw-motorrad-intake-muffler-13718567190 we see this airbox is only for Shift Cams. So... maybe not?
(04-27-2022, 10:49 AM)NHrider Wrote: Pyrrho, if you buy the Brentuning VS. Ill buy the DJ VS. We can take measurements of the stacks and compare the two.
As I see it, what Berlin giveth, Euro 5 taketh away. Tuning removes those pesky legal and ethical restrictions to allow the bike to realize its genetic potential. It's like having a child born from olympic athletes with genius-level IQs but binding its feet and gouging out an eye, maybe puncture a lung at birth because the government told you to. The kid, if it even survived to adulthood, would likely turn out to have some horrible life and left on its own, devolve into a paste-eating circus freak.
You don't do that to your kid, you don't do that to your bike. Of course I'll be tuning it! Just hadn't thought about a stage 2 until today. Now I'm thinking about it a lot.
RE: Black widow headers - Grumpy Goat - 04-28-2022
(04-28-2022, 12:10 AM)Pyrrho Wrote: ..
As I see it, what Berlin giveth, Euro 5 taketh away. Tuning removes those pesky legal and ethical restrictions to allow the bike to realize its genetic potential. It's like having a child born from olympic athletes with genius-level IQs but binding its feet and gouging out an eye, maybe puncture a lung at birth because the government told you to. The kid, if it even survived to adulthood, would likely turn out to have some horrible life and left on its own, devolve into a paste-eating circus freak.
You don't do that to your kid, you don't do that to your bike. Of course I'll be tuning it! Just hadn't thought about a stage 2 until today. Now I'm thinking about it a lot.
Beautifully put.I like the idea of tuning the bike, and a few years ago was preliminarily chatting with Bren Tuning but I decided to postpone any such move. I had rationalized that it would likely shorten the life of the bike, and to my way of thinking, based on cost it is better to put that money towards another bike with higher levels of performance built in. Like my S1000R which I had for a time ...
RE: Black widow headers - maxredline - 04-28-2022
Getting back to the headers, I think the Black Widow and Delkevic have good value, both made in the UK.
They both do not have the "veblin goods" signature, at least not yet.
I will be interested in the bluing effect on the pipes.
Black Widow
https://blackwidowexhaust.com/
Delkevic (not much in BMW)
https://delkevic.com/