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Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Grumpy Goat - 09-20-2022
With the extensive TV coverage of the funeral of HM Queen Elizabeth II, motorcycle lovers could not help but notice that escort duties performed by the Metropolitan Police used BMW R12xx RSs. One could not help but be impressed with these machines as they were expertly piloted by riders who knew what they were doing. Yes there were a few other models but the footage I saw seemed to mostly feature the nimble RSs, but there were some RTs as well.
Here is a video too (not from the funeral):
I can't help but wonder if there would be any impact on sales of the RS and if so would BMW be able to fulfil the demand. Still irks me that this model is not pushed more, and by BMW themselves.
Heck even when it comes to the driveshaft housing "fix" the RS is not mentioned even though the housing and shaft (and therefore the problem) is the same! Oh, I forgot ... there is no problem.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Ray - 09-20-2022
Yes.
No.
My take is that the driveshaft issue is not as significant for the RS, as there is less travel in the swingarm.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Becksy - 09-21-2022
Yes, they should push this model more, it’s a fantastic bike. the motorcycling press always overlook it as well whenever they do a sports tourer comparison.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Duckbubbles - 09-21-2022
My latest issue of the MOA mag lists the 2023 bikes and their changes/updates. The R1250RS and R1250R are NOT included. There are a plethora of R9T's, however.
I believe the RS is under publicized and under appreciated by BMW. Why build a bike if you won't expend some effort to sell them.
Frank
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Lee - 09-21-2022
(09-21-2022, 07:40 AM)Duckbubbles Wrote: My latest issue of the MOA mag lists the 2023 bikes and their changes/updates. The R1250RS and R1250R are NOT included. There are a plethora of R9T's, however.
I believe the RS is under publicized and under appreciated by BMW. Why build a bike if you won't expend some effort to sell them.
Frank
The 2023 RS and R are still not listed on the BMW website. Other 2023 models went into production in August.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Grumpy Goat - 09-21-2022
(09-20-2022, 10:05 PM)Ray Wrote: Yes.
No.
My take is that the driveshaft issue is not as significant for the RS, as there is less travel in the swingarm.
Not sure I follow. The valve is there for drainage so I can't see how a difference in swingarm arc travel would affect entrapped moisture / water.
Besides, Darrell's RT has the valve from the factory. Surely that has similar swingarm travel as the RS ...
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Grumpy Goat - 09-21-2022
(09-21-2022, 04:36 AM)Becksy Wrote: Yes, they should push this model more, it’s a fantastic bike. the motorcycling press always overlook it as well whenever they do a sports tourer comparison.
Exactly my feeling too. It is as if, because it has a boxer twin engine, it doesn't qualify to be reviewed alongside bikes with conventional engines especially if they have more cylinders. And that is not helped if BMW is not pushing the model as well. It is the manufacturers that send bikes to these motojournalists to review, and they will ride whatever is sent. So unless they didn't ask BMW at all, BMW should have sent them RSs to test.
No, I lay the blame for the RSs obscurity squarely on the doorstep of BMW, and I am no fanboy to where I would be afraid of saying so.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Grumpy Goat - 09-21-2022
(09-21-2022, 07:40 AM)Duckbubbles Wrote: My latest issue of the MOA mag lists the 2023 bikes and their changes/updates. The R1250RS and R1250R are NOT included. There are a plethora of R9T's, however.
I believe the RS is under publicized and under appreciated by BMW. Why build a bike if you won't expend some effort to sell them.
Frank
I noticed that too, but I would allow that is likely because they have not bothered to update the RS. Most likely not the MOA's fault (not that you are saying it is).
I do see BMW pushing these R9Ts, and while they are a nice bike, who the heck is buying them and being part of the BMW motorcycle culture such that these multiple variants and updates are justified? I mean really? Meanwhile the one RS variant is ignored, except (apparently) by the Metropolitan Police.
I fully agree with your last statements.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Lee - 09-21-2022
(09-21-2022, 11:07 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:(09-20-2022, 10:05 PM)Ray Wrote: Yes.
No.
My take is that the driveshaft issue is not as significant for the RS, as there is less travel in the swingarm.
Not sure I follow. The valve is there for drainage so I can't see how a difference in swingarm arc travel would affect entrapped moisture / water.
There's very little forward and back movement of the driveshaft on the RS, R and RT so even with rust there's not much chance for damage to the splines.
To be on the safe side BMW is putting the vent in all the Wethead bikes at the factory.
The older pre wethead bikes had more movement of of the spline area.
The K75 was probably the worst of the bikes for spline damage. It was not unusual for a K75 to have worn out splines by 60,000 miles.
The hardest service was lubing the clutch splines on the Brick K bikes. The transmission had to be pulled back.
I think we had the dealer do this every 20,000 miles or so.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Ray - 09-21-2022
(09-21-2022, 11:07 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:(09-20-2022, 10:05 PM)Ray Wrote: Yes.
No.
My take is that the driveshaft issue is not as significant for the RS, as there is less travel in the swingarm.
Not sure I follow. The valve is there for drainage so I can't see how a difference in swingarm arc travel would affect entrapped moisture / water.
Agree - you have the right to feel left out in not being offered a duckbill valve at the low point on your swingarm - just in case you find some high water to run through.
(Personally, I don't believe my final drive will fail due to absence of an extra hole and (an easily lost) duckbill valve.)
I note that the service procedure includes some testing of the integrity of the drive train - this might simply be for data collection among the bikes of GS riders, who seem to be (at least on their fora) at high risk for final drive failure.
I don't know. Maybe BMW hasn't seen much in the way of failure of RS joints or final drive. We're a pretty responsible group, and after Darrell's high-mileage failure, many of us have paid attention to what used to be considered routine maintenance. (I think I mentioned, one of the folks I know still has an old R shaft cased in grease in the PVC pipe he used to carry it as a spare on trips to Mexico.) In this context, I don't mind if my riding style and care for my bike are felt to somehow differ from those of the unwashed mass of GS bikes (if not riders).
You are right - why include the RT and not the RS. The most recent models sport front/rear travel of 4.7/5.4 inch for the RT and 5.5/5.5 inch for the RS (always one of my arguments for the RS as a good bike for varied terrain). (GS comes in at 7.5/7.9 inch and GSA at 8.3/8.7 inch.)
That said, here's Ben Purvis' take on this isssue as found on the Bennetts site (UK) as to why RTs were included.... Which circles back to your original question. Aren't RSs used for "official use" like the RT? Don't they deserve similar consideration?
B Purvis - The problem appears to be that, in some conditions, water can accumulate inside the swingarm containing the drive shaft, whether due to ingress during off-road use or fording deep water or thanks to riding in particularly wet or humid climates. Although largely the same design of swingarm is used on many BMW boxer models, the GS is the target of the enhancement work because it’s more likely to be used in those conditions and its higher suspension means the universal joints in the shaft drive assembly are at a greater angle, adding to the strain on them. Hence the update only applies to the GS and to rare ‘official use’ versions of the R1200RT and R1250RT – the sort sold to police or perhaps blood bike services.
The work that dealers will carry out varies depending on the age and mileage of the bikes. All get a vent hole drilled into the lowest point of the shaft drive assembly’s outer case, and bunged with a rubber one-way valve that allows water to be drained from inside without letting water in. Dealers will also do checks for excessive wear or signs that bikes have accumulated water inside the shaft assembly and may replace some parts. https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2022/august/bmw-driveshaft-service-check
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Lee - 09-21-2022
I think Esquared's RS left the factory with the vent.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Grumpy Goat - 09-21-2022
(09-21-2022, 03:22 PM)Lee Wrote: I think Esquared's RS left the factory with the vent.
If that is the case then they should be retrofitting ours as well. Phasing it in makes little sense, since if this is a solution the longer they wait more driveshafts can fail, and the more the chance of higher goodwill costs (or ticked off customers) they will have.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Grumpy Goat - 09-21-2022
(09-21-2022, 02:01 PM)Ray Wrote: Agree - you have the right to feel left out in the resumption of this old practice of putting a duckbill valve at the low point on your swingarm - just in case you find some high water to run through.
So they used to put the duckbill valve on swingarms as a matter of course before? This being my first shaft drive I was not aware of that. I wonder why they stopped given it is a low-tech solution.
(09-21-2022, 02:01 PM)Ray Wrote: I note that the service procedure includes some testing of the integrity of the drive train - this might simply be for data collection among the bikes of GS riders, who seem to be (at least on their fora) at high risk for final drive failure.
Could be that because there are much greater numbers of them it seems that the risk may seem higher, although the GS is likely to see more rugged use than ours. Either way there should be more failures on the GSs I suppose.
(09-21-2022, 02:01 PM)Ray Wrote: You are right - why include the RT and not the RS. The most recent models sport front/rear travel of 4.7/5.4 inch for the RT and 5.5/5.5 inch for the RS (always one of my arguments for the RS as a good bike for varied terrain). (GS comes in at 7.5/7.9 inch and GSA at 8.3/8.7 inch.)
Yes with that degree of vertical travel the horizontal component of the travel will naturally be greater than with our bikes, but one could also think that with more movement there is less chance of rust welding these surfaces together. Also, the failures I have seen appear to be twisting shear at the yoke and that has nothing to do with rust at the spline toothed interfaces (I would not think).
(09-21-2022, 02:01 PM)Ray Wrote: That said, here's Ben Purvis' take on this isssue as found on the Bennetts site (UK) as to why RTs were included....
Thanks for including that. For people who don't ford streams etc. I am a skeptic that significant water will accumulate due to condensation etc, at least where the heat won't burn it off. I do expect some surface rust at these spline surfaces unless they are disassembled and lubed more often than the maintenance schedule specifies.
Like you I am in no rush to get the duckbill valve retrofitted. My issue is more the principle of the thing.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - maxredline - 09-21-2022
(09-20-2022, 11:11 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I can't help but wonder if there would be any impact on sales of the RS
I can't believe how Triumph motorcycles missed the boat here. Dress up a tiger 1200 for the show.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Ray - 09-22-2022
(09-21-2022, 05:48 PM)maxredline Wrote:(09-20-2022, 11:11 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I can't help but wonder if there would be any impact on sales of the RS
I can't believe how Triumph motorcycles missed the boat here. Dress up a tiger 1200 for the show.
Right - growing up Canadian, you probably appreciate more than most the odd relationships between England and Germany in the last century.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Ray - 09-22-2022
(09-21-2022, 04:12 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:Good pick-up. I shouldn't write when tired.(09-21-2022, 02:01 PM)Ray Wrote: Agree - you have the right to feel left out in the resumption of this old practice of putting a duckbill valve at the low point on your swingarm - just in case you find some high water to run through.
So they used to put the duckbill valve on swingarms as a matter of course before? This being my first shaft drive I was not aware of that. I wonder why they stopped given it is a low-tech solution.
Although I recall a Paris-Dakar model at the shop with a one-way valve in a drain hole in the swing arm in the 90s, I guess this was simply aftermarket garage work. I went back to check the old microfiche and established that this was NOT a factory practice. My prior post has been edited.
(This is also my first R bike, though I had a couple of K100s to get used to the drive shaft.)
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Lee - 09-24-2022
(09-21-2022, 09:09 AM)Lee Wrote: The 2023 RS and R are still not listed on the BMW website. Other 2023 models went into production in August.
There will be a RS and R in 2023.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/bmw-r-1250-rs-updates-2023/
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Grumpy Goat - 09-24-2022
(09-24-2022, 07:05 AM)Lee Wrote: There will be a RS and R in 2023.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/bmw-r-1250-rs-updates-2023/
I saw that article, and others like it. Based on type approval documentation for the new model year. So far, no real changes except for the catalytic converter. Not surprised, but at least there is an indication that they have not totally neglected it.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Pyrrho - 09-24-2022
(09-24-2022, 07:29 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:(09-24-2022, 07:05 AM)Lee Wrote: There will be a RS and R in 2023.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/bmw-r-1250-rs-updates-2023/
I saw that article, and others like it. Based on type approval documentation for the new model year. So far, no real changes except for the catalytic converter. Not surprised, but at least there is an indication that they have not totally neglected it.
Don't all the premium '23 models get an updated TPM system? They call it something different now.
RE: Will the RS see a surge in sales and if so will there be enough supply? - Ray - 09-25-2022
Huh. Hard to say, but not that I can tell. It's still called gradient monitoring RDC and according to the most recent manual I found, still works off a radio transmitter that sends data on analog pressure measurements. I think a lot of the marketing has been the expansion of this technology to other lines including the R18.
Not sure how well the technology used in my wifes SUV - that requires re-calibration every time I air the tires up or down - would work for us, as it's based not on pressure monitoring, but tire/wheel circumference.
That said, when it comes to interpreting what BMW is and is not doing, I'm reminded regularly that in the end, I am only guessing.
(09-24-2022, 02:42 PM)Pyrrho Wrote: Don't all the premium '23 models get an updated TPM system? They call it something different now.