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+--- Thread: Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... (/thread-847.html)
Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... - Grumpy Goat - 11-15-2022
... but will it last as long.
RE: Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... - Ray - 11-16-2022
My last 3 Shoei photochromatic shields all succombed to scratches from high-speed bugs and rocks.
Although aging reportedly results in residual darkening that does not clear under low/no light conditions, this has not limited the useful lifespan for my shields.
I wonder if the savings represents the rate at which the shield darkens and lightens, or if the savings comes from that "direct from the factory because a box fell off the back of a truck and I mailed it to my cousin in LA" discount.
(Actually, the factory(ies) that makes the shields for Shoei likely also sells the same or similar product to anyone who wants to buy in bulk. I still remember the image sent by my son living in China of one of his friend's apartments loaded with boxes from the purchase of a half-million units of KN-95 masks at the beginning of the pandemic. They all eventually were mailed out or delivered from the "shipping apartment.")
RE: Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... - Grumpy Goat - 11-16-2022
(11-16-2022, 02:51 PM)Ray Wrote: My last 3 Shoei photochromatic shields all succombed to scratches from high-speed bugs and rocks.
...
I wonder if the savings represents the rate at which the shield darkens and lightens, or if the savings comes from that "direct from the factory because a box fell off the back of a truck and I mailed it to my cousin in LA" discount.
(Actually, the factory(ies) that makes the shields for Shoei likely also sells the same or similar product to anyone who wants to buy in bulk.
I have only had one Shoei photochromic shield and it did have the residual darkening, but I can still use it at night, as it is not dark ... just the slightest tint. It has some small scratches but not that bad. If the RF-1400 used the same shield as the RF-1200 I would have re-used the Shoei photochromic shield.
That said the Puentemys shield is working great so far and has seen a ton of bugs (no rocks yet) in the Kerrville trip. Nice and clear with no aberrations. If it lasts 1/2 as long as the Shoei shield, then it is a win since you'll be able to get a fresh shield twice as fast.
RE: Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... - TriangleRider - 11-17-2022
Does the shield have the VESC8 imprint?
RE: Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... - runnerhiker - 11-17-2022
I have the genuine Shoei photo chromatic shield and it works as you have mentioned, mine has not lost tinting ability. But I stopped using it because it gave everything a rose colored tint that never became unnoticeable for me - I was always aware of it, I could always see it. And on the video above, I thought I saw that effect also when you picked up this shield from your truck and the light colored driveway was behind the shield.
Otherwise, a great idea, just not for me.
RE: Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... - Ray - 11-17-2022
(11-17-2022, 11:52 AM)TriangleRider Wrote: Does the shield have the VESC8 imprint?
...good point. Judging from the language as regards scratch resistance on the protective film, and the lack of any identifiable V8 imprint in the usual places, I suspect this is where some of the cost savings comes in. GG - if not done, take a look for us and perhaps amend the video.
If there is no rating noted, ask one of your Texan neighbors to do some firearms ballistic testing a la Ryan Kluftinger of FortNine..., much more entertaining than dropping a conical projectile from 14 feet onto the center of the mounted shield, and I suspect viewership of YouTube videos always goes up when they include guns.
Have fun.
RE: Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... - Grumpy Goat - 11-18-2022
(11-17-2022, 11:52 AM)TriangleRider Wrote: Does the shield have the VESC8 imprint?
Thanks for the innocent-looking question.
I am on vacation today and will spend a few minutes on this because there are things that I need to do but this is more fun ...For those like me who were not aware of what VESC 8 stands for,
"It is a federal standard called the Vehicle Equipment Safety Commission Standard 8, commonly abbreviated as VESC 8 or it may appear on approved shields and lenses as simply “V8.”
Shields, goggles and other eye protection devices that meet the standard will display “Meets VESC 8” or “V8” molded into the shield material up in the corner near the shield hinge." [Ultimate Motorcycling]
As might be expected, this shield has NO writing on it, molded or otherwise. We can take that to mean that it does not meet the US Federal Standard VESC 8.
I am not going to read the standard from VESC as I cannot be bothered. But in the interest of passing on information to others who might have some interest, I will offer some real-world comments on the Ultimate Motorcycling description of the standard, based on ownership use.
Ultimate Motorcycling says (with my paraphrasing, formatting, etc.) that:
To be compliant with the standard, the shield must pass tests on:
- clarity - pass; very clear
- light transmittance - pass; very clear
- lack of optical distortion - pass; no optical distortion at any angle in the field of view
- impact resistance - no idea; visor thickness identical to OEM but material comparison is unknown
- flame resistance - no idea; not tested
- no sharp edges - pass; finished identically to the OEM visor, in every respect except molded writing
- the material cannot be prone to changes such as weakening, discoloration or becoming brittle with age or exposure to sun or common substances - no idea; watch my YouTube channel for long term tests
- must not have prismatic effect greater than 1/8 diopter (i.e. must be optically correct for someone who does not need corrective lenses) - pass; no prismatic effects and is optically correct
My responses to these tests are shown in blue.
The Ultimate Motorcycling article also says "This testing is done under American National Standards Institute (ANSI) Z87.1 specifications though eye protection devices for motorcycle operator use do not have to meet the entire Z87.1 standard."
The article also notes that:
"Of course, this is really about much more than a piece of your gear meeting some bureaucratic set of standards. Your eyes are irreplaceable and eye injuries can happen in an instant in an environment where flying road debris, rocks, bugs, falling foliage from roadside trees can happen at any time."
Now as some of you may know I am an engineer and I work in a Company that certifies vendor equipment to meet certain standards based on various tests etc. so I have some familiarity with some of these federal standards and test methods. This brings to mind that I once visited a most interesting facility years ago (Southwest Research Institute) in San Antonio (Texas) where some very interesting testing is done to many different standards although I did not know to ask about motorcycle helmet testing at that time.
I suggest that having a product manufactured to a set of standards is certainly better than having it manufactured to no standards at all, if only to satisfy one's sense of security. For instance, if the knock off is so accurate, and the standard is so wide (note that VESC has not met since 1983! so how applicable are these 1980 standards??), then "better" might only exist in one's head, and in reality the two products may well be functionally equivalent.
Then there is the use case involved ... will all the parameters specified by the standard be experienced in real-world use such that it maybe does not matter? For instance, if you have the most protective helmet and visor in the world sitting on a shelf, or not strapped on properly or you ride with the visor open all the time or the chin bar flipped up, or whatever, then where do the testing standards apply? This notion can be extended to the general concept of buying brand name products versus cheaper no-name knock-offs. Anyway, I digress.
Just in case the reader thinks that I am somehow promoting this shield, or promoting the use of knock offs, or anything like that - I am not. Each person is free their own ideas and free to use whatever they want to use. Just sharing some information that there are alternatives to the US$200+ Transitions-type visors that are significantly cheaper, and with similar apparent performance characteristics. Take that as you will.
RE: Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... - Grumpy Goat - 11-18-2022
(11-17-2022, 04:16 PM)runnerhiker Wrote: I have the genuine Shoei photo chromatic shield and it works as you have mentioned, mine has not lost tinting ability. But I stopped using it because it gave everything a rose colored tint that never became unnoticeable for me - I was always aware of it, I could always see it. And on the video above, I thought I saw that effect also when you picked up this shield from your truck and the light colored driveway was behind the shield.
Otherwise, a great idea, just not for me.
Yes, use of a photochromic shield may not be for everyone but if you do ride in changing light conditions (i.e. night to bright sunshine as in commuting in a northern climate) and you can't be bothered to be changing visors (or doing the even more absurd and illegal riding with a tinted visor at night!) then it makes a whole lotta sense.
As for the residual tint - I think that I can go so far as to say that yes, when any photochromic shield is in its night-time mode, it would still have a slight tint to it. Makes no difference riding in the night, mind, but if you hold a piece of white paper behind it, you will see the slight tint.
I believe it was Shoei who said that after their visor's 2-year lifespan the tint tends to be darker than when new, i.e. it does not go back to "clear". I can attest to that. Does it mean that nighttime riding is impeded - not to me. Note that I did not remember seeing any comment from them on the loss of darkening capability and my Shoei visor still darkened enough to be usable in the Texas sun. Is it as dark as when new ... maybe, maybe not. This is not rocket science ...
RE: Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... - Pyrrho - 11-18-2022
What I'd be concerned about this Chineseium visor is lack of ANY safety rating, and is it an exact duplicate of OEM (no). Reports of Pinlock shields not fitting properly and increased noise vs OEM visors.
Safety gear is not the area to look to save money IMO. Just because something fits and looks identical doesn't mean it will protect similarly at all. I just looked, and the OEM Shoei photochromatic shield is listed as in-stock at several dealers. Tripleclampmoto, Speedaddicts, Sportbiketrackgear, an eBay seller has them in stock new... and that's within just a minute of trying to find it.
Spend the money. Your eyes and face are worth it.
RE: Alternative photochromic helmet visor for a fraction of the price ... - Grumpy Goat - 11-18-2022
(11-18-2022, 04:32 PM)Pyrrho Wrote: What I'd be concerned about this Chineseium visor is lack of ANY safety rating, and is it an exact duplicate of OEM (no). Reports of Pinlock shields not fitting properly and increased noise vs OEM visors.
...
I think you missed the thrust of my post.