General Question on Dealing with BMW as a company

[kw278]

Hi -

This question may be addressed in other threads so if it is kindly direct me to them.

I would like for those US owners who've also owned a number of other brands over the years to share their opinions about dealing w/BMW Motorrad as a company - compared to manufacturers of other makes (Japanese, for instance, with whom I have a fair amount of experience), are they responsive? Are repair parts hard to get and expensive? Experience with reliability? Those types of issues - not necessarily the quality of the dealer you work with (an interesting topic - but dealers, even within a brand, vary in quality). I'm more interested in the company itself.

I specify US owners because in multinational companies the "character" of the company is often defined by the in-country organization. The BMW corporate presence in the UK could be very different from the one in the USA.

Here's the reason. I just put a deposit down on an R 1250 RS. Bike looks great, good reviews, specs fit with what I want now. But I intend to own it for a number of years. This will be my 14th motorcycle - this bike is preceded by 4 Harleys, 3 Yamahas, 3 Suzukis, 2 Kawasakis and a Honda. By and large my experiences with the manufacturers (and dealers) were satisfactory. Service costs were reasonable and the motorcycles were reliable.

But I've also owned two BMW 335x-drives, and that was a different experience. Fun to drive but a heartbreak at the repair shop. Things broke a lot more frequently than either my US or Japanese cars - oil stand gasket leak at 80K miles - $1100. Oil Pan gasket at 110K miles - $1600. Intercooler connector at 115K miles - $800. RDU control board - first one failed at 50K miles and was covered under warrant - second at 90K miles and set me back $900. And on and on. Brake servicing was another irrititant. When the pads wore down I was told that the rotors had to be replaced as well, even though there had not been metal to metal contact. The explanation I got was that BMW designed the rotors to be very thin to save weight, so they had a tendency to warp. GRRRR!

And it's complicated by the fact that dealer density, in southeast Ohio, is much less than the Big 4 Japanese OEM's or the Motor Company.

So it would be very helpful if anyone would share their experiences in this regard. Thanks much!

[Duckbubbles]

My opinion is that the BMW R1200/1250 series are very reliable. You can find horror stories on the net about each brand when you look. I have owned BMW bikes for 36 years and have been exclusive to them for over 10 years now so my opinion is biased.

My own "horror" story was with my 2016 R1200RS. Over 28K+ miles it went through four water pumps. Never leaked enough to cause a problem or cause me to worry about it excessively, just made a mess at the overboard outlet. Not what you want with an expensive motorcycle. It took a few months in the end, but BMW bought the bike back from me giving me the full purchase price. I turned around and bought the exact same bike (a year model newer) and have had zero problems in 37K miles.

Dealing with BMWNA and my local dealer was not an issue with me. At the time I had been a customer of the local shop for more than 30 years and had bought several bikes through them. So my experience may be unique, but being reasonable about the situation- it wasn't anyone's fault the pumps kept puking a little coolant, in fact #3 pump went over 10K miles with nary a drop. #4 pump leaked a little on my ride home after replacement- 4 miles! I haven't heard on the net of the water pumps leaking for quite a while now.

Enjoy your new ride.

Frank

[kw278]

Well, the mileage you show is impressive. Thanks, Frank - that helps. And I understand from the salesman (just spoke on the phone) that the standard warranty is now 3 yrs/36K miles - if true, that's reassuring. My concern was partly driven by the Consumer Reports survey of US riders a few years back.

[Grumpy Goat]

Hi -

This question may be addressed in other threads so if it is kindly direct me to them.

I would like for those US owners who've also owned a number of other brands over the years to share their opinions about dealing w/BMW Motorrad as a company - compared to manufacturers of other makes (Japanese, for instance, with whom I have a fair amount of experience), are they responsive? Are repair parts hard to get and expensive? Experience with reliability? Those types of issues - not necessarily the quality of the dealer you work with (an interesting topic - but dealers, even within a brand, vary in quality). I'm more interested in the company itself.

Welcome to the Forum Community, kw278. Hope to see good contributions from you in the future also. Your initial post is an interesting one, which has not been addressed thus far in this Forum Community so no need to direct you elsewhere.

There are many members here who have been loyal BMW members for decades, and who would be in a far better position than I to comment on dealing with BMW NA. I have only had BMW motorcycles since late 2015 when I got my RS. In that time I have never had to deal with BMW NA but have dealt with 2 dealerships thus far and one the case of one, my experience has been excellent when it came to after sales service. The other (current) one has also been good, although one service experience regarding the servicing of my front forks took way too long and made me wonder if they knew what they were doing. Other smaller jobs they handled just fine.

Availability of parts is probably no worse than any other manufacturer - they always have commonly stocked parts on hand and occasionally they may have to get a part from "the warehouse" and, less frequently, "from Germany". in no case was the delay unreasonable. Yes, most parts can be [relatively] expensive, but its a premium brand so that is par for the course.

Reliability is harder to address. There are some who do no maintenance on their bikes and no monitoring of conditions (the "just ride it" folks) and then complain if / when it breaks, blaming the machine. These are the reports I ignore, and maybe these are the data points that result in poorer rankings.

When it comes to reliability given reasonable maintenance and monitoring, conventional opinion is that the Japanese makes are at the top, and I don't think that anyone can dispute that. Depending on the report, BMW motorcycles would be various positions in the bottom half when it comes to reliability. However, if you consider average length of time BMWs run vs reliability, the odds would swing back in BMWs favour. I think that on average, BMW owners tend to keep their bikes longer and put more miles on them than any other maker. Why would they do that if the bikes were unreliable? Best to join fora like this to hear from actual owners and to gauge whether the reliability level is acceptable or not. To merely listen to ratings is not looking at the whole picture.

Also owners of BMWs often work on the bikes themselves and many [here] have an encyclopedic knowledge of various systems on their bikes which they put to good use working on the bikes. I hope to tap into that on this forum, as opposed to reading about the latest farkle to put on a garage queen.

Personally I have had good reliability from my RS. The S1000R has been good so far but too early to tell, as I only put about 2k miles on it so far. The RS has 54k miles (?) and so far has only had a weeping left fork seal which was fixed by the better of my two dealers. And this includes having been repaired after an accident in 2016 that cost $7500 worth of damage.

From what I have seen there is no chronic issue with the water cooled RS, although we are keeping our collective eyes on spline and u-joint failure in the driveshaft. That potential issue is common across all current shaft-driven models which have a one-piece non-serviceable driveshaft.

So you have come to the right place to get answers to your query.

[Lee]

the standard warranty is now 3 yrs/36K miles - if true,

That's true. Long time ago it was 3 years and unlimited mileage.
I have close to 400,000 BMW miles and my wife has over 300,000 and we have have very few repairs after warranty runs out.
We kept most of our bikes a long time.

[Grumpy Goat]

My concern was partly driven by the Consumer Reports survey of US riders a few years back.

That explains a lot. I had a rule of thumb that when it came to automotive ratings CR could be misleading. They are great for appliances and household stuff but cars and bikes ... not so much. Best to check the automotive magazines and online fora for a more rounded picture. In my post above I independently linked to a motorcycle.com report on reliability which cited CR ratings, which in turn showed BMW at the bottom only above CanAm. I have no experience with or knowledge of CanAm, but I do not believe that BMW deserves to be at the bottom.

[Lee]

Are repair parts hard to get and expensive?

Seems like the price of parts really took a big jump 15 years or so ago but that may be true for other manufactures.
Maintenance cost is not too bad on the R1200/1250 because a lot of it can be done by the owner and if you have shop do the work most of the maintenance is not time consuming.

[Duckbubbles]

I ride with 8-10 others with R1200/1250 bikes and I am the only one who had recurring problems of any sort. One had the recall of her early model R1200RT's rear shock. Another had the little black box on the Pro-shift system go bad. Both under warranty. The most recurring problem with the R1200RS's as I see it is headlight bulbs going out in 10-15K miles. Mileages on these bikes I am talking about range from 20 to over 70K miles.

Frank

[Olgry1]

I've had 11 BMWs, 1 Ducati, 3 Kawasakis, 3 Suzukis, 2 Triumphs and 1 Yamaha.

A couple of years ago I "restored" a 1991 K!. Oem parts for the K1 were readily available even though the bike was close to 30 years old.

My experience has been that all the manufacturers seemed to be pretty similar. Usually by the time the manufacturer get involved the dealership was not able to meet your needs or there was a recall.

Personally when I look to buy a new vehicle I look at the dealership as much as the vehicle and price. My future satisfaction is in large part due to the customer service provided by the dealership.

We currently have a 2015 BMW X! with the xdrive and 90,000 miles on it. To date we have had to change the battery, the rear brake pads and had to replace the thermostat which was covered under extend warranty due to issues with the part. Other than that regular maintenance that is all we have done. Consumer Report indicates that our model year is fairly reliable.

Total miles on BMW motorcycles is just over 200,000 miles. I have had everything from S1000RRs to R1200s to RTs to K100RS abs and a K1600GT.

Currently I have a R1250RT with 17,000 miles on it and have been very satisfied.

[kw278]

Thanks, all, greatly appreciate the inputs as they have helped address my concerns. And I get the point about qualifying the Consumer Reports study - a YZF-R1 rider will not likely put nearly as many miles on the bike as, say, a R1250RT rider will. Myself, I ride about 5K - 7K miles per year - most of which falls into the "pleasant substitute for a car on trips I would have to take anyway" category, although there's an annual excursion to Deal's Gap and environs which adds 1700 miles to the odometer. As for working on the bike, I'm somewhere between "oil changes and nothing else" and "tear down the engine" category. Mainly depends on how much time I want to invest. Agree about checking the dealer out, too. When I had my Harley's there was one local dealer which was quite good, one which you had to keep an eye on. Problem with Beemer's is that the network is not as dense and you don't have as many choices - the place where I'll pick this one up seems OK but we'll see. Look forward to conversations with you guys on other threads. C'mon, Spring!

[Lee]

Problem with Beemer's is that the network is not as dense and you don't have as many choices -

That's true, most owners have to travel a couple hours to a dealer.
Which dealer are you looking at?

[Lee]

Consider joining the BMW Motorcyle Owners of America.

https://www.bmwmoa.org/default.aspx

Here's a free three month trial so you can check out the magazine, forum and benefits.
https://www.bmwmoa.org/page/membership3free

Membership options
https://www.bmwmoa.org/page/membertypes

[Grumpy Goat]

Problem with Beemer's is that the network is not as dense and you don't have as many choices -

That's true, most owners have to travel a couple hours to a dealer.

I guess I am lucky here in Houston - there are 4 BMW dealerships within 40 miles of my house, with the closest being 23 miles away. Within that same radius there are 6 HD dealerships. Beyond that it spreads out as well.

Maybe there is a greater need when it comes to service.

Went on a couple longer distance annual rides with a few friends, a couple of whom ride Harleys. On two occasions there were issues with the Harley of one of the riders and one with the other rider. The issues with the first one were oil leaking and breaking off of a shifter, the latter of which required a 3 hour stop at a Harley dealer in Texarkana. He also had an inner tube problem on a different trip that required a 70 mile tow and a trip to San Angelo and an overnight stay resulting in a new tire and tube, but that is not directly related to HD. The other bike started to have seemingly spontaneous oil leaking from the engine which the owner monitored for the rest of the trip, topping up as necessary.

[Grumpy Goat]

Consider joining the BMW Motorcyle Owners of America.

https://www.bmwmoa.org/default.aspx

Here's a free three month trial so you can check out the magazine, forum and benefits.
https://www.bmwmoa.org/page/membership3free

Membership options
https://www.bmwmoa.org/page/membertypes

I second that wholeheartedly. Just renewed my membership for another year with full Platinum Roadside Assistance & Tire Hazard Protection.

[kw278]

Thanks - the membership thing sounds like a good idea - just saved the link.

Lee - the dealer is BMW Motorcycle of Greater Cincinnati and it's in Middletown - about an hour north of downtown Cincy and maybe 40 minutes SW of Dayton - 25 minutes from my house.


I actually have a total of probably 60K miles on Harleys - No real issues.


The first - a '97 Dyna, had a leak at a seal which was easy to fix. I then had another Dyna and a Fatboy - combined 20K miles between them and no issues between them. The most recent, a '13 Electraglide, had no issues with the original motorcycle. 15K into my ownership I purchased 110" upgrade kit which had serious oil burning issues to which the H-D engrs, when service got them on phone, responded with a "yeah, we know about that" tone and they fixed it straightaway - it was a new release and someone in product development didn't do something right. No issues for the next 21K miles and sold it a couple of weeks ago. So reliability never was an issue. Just got tired of the weight more than anything else.

[Ray]

Thanks - the membership thing sounds like a good idea - just saved the link.

Lee - the dealer is BMW Motorcycle of Greater Cincinnati and it's in Middletown - about an hour north of downtown Cincy and maybe 40 minutes SW of Dayton - 25 minutes from my house.

Lee and others are right. It's all about people - our relationship with the dealership and their relationship with mothership.

The relatively new dealership in western Ohio is owned by the MotoOhio folks out of Columbus - good people, and they seem to have respect from above. As long as you bring them doughnuts or the equivalent with any necessary service trips, you're pretty much guaranteed attention to those rare quality control issues.

For what it's worth, I went to reliable engineering and shaft drive and BMWs in '86, when the Harley mantra started with the words "I would rather push my Harley than...." (And, although I joke about how little time I spend on my bike, I do stay on top of maintenance and remain vigilant for the unusual.) I knock on wood - a lot of miles in remote places, and I've never had to push or make the phone call..., yet.

[kw278]

Good info about the Cincy dealership - and a great tip on motivation! I always like the kind of dealership where you can talk directly to the mechanic. And totally agree on the relationship chain - rider to dealer and dealer to mothership.

My first shaftie was a 1983 Suzuki GS 650 I purchased as a second car, so to speak, when working in the Chicago area. Kind of a chilly ride this time of the year.

Anyway, just penciled in our ride to Deal's Gap in late June. My buddy has a Concours 1400 so it will be an interesting matchup. Need to get this one broken in soon.

[Lee]

I always like the kind of dealership where you can talk directly to the mechanic.

My first shaftie was a 1983 Suzuki GS 650

I usually enter the Kansas City shop from the basement so I can say hi to the service manager and Techs. Kansas City is very good about letting you talk to the Techs.

I thought the GS650 was a neat looking bike. Never had a chance to ride one.
We had a 1980 GS850G shaftdrive four years and 55,000 miles.
This was back when we rode 2up.

   

[kw278]

Ahhh - the classic UJM w/Windjammer fairing! Looks good!

We got married on a '81 GS1100. Well, we drove to Cambridge MA City Hall on one to recite the vows. Then I went back to work in the grad student lab that afternoon. Memories ...

[O'erTheHill]

I've had a few BMWs over the years, and they are my preference. I don't know about the company but I do know about the dealers. I had a Triumph Tiger for a while, a terrific bike with an extraordinary sound, but in addition to being a bit cramped for two-up riding, the dealerships tend lean towards a younger, wilder crowd. I'm never going to be doing stuntz in some city parking lot wearing baggy jeans, sneakers, and a backwards baseball cap.
So when I bought my K1300S from Morton's in Fredericksburg, VA, imagine my astonishment when they called be a week after buying the bike to tell be BMW had just dropped the price, they had not yet put in my paperwork, and wanted to know if I would like to come in and sign a new purchase agreement for $1000 less. BMW NA--probably a good company. Their dealers are awesome and the spaces are just...comfortable and fellow customers are (usually) real grown-ups.
I do wish BMW was better at taking suggestions though...