Rear Tire Installation Failure

[Grumpy Goat]

Will be getting some rim protectors and tire spoons for next time. Also have to use lots more soapy water lube.

[Lee]

You need to learn how to swear more

No Mar also sells a plastic protector for your bead breaker that you may want when you make another order.

[Grumpy Goat]

You need to learn how to swear more

No Mar also sells a plastic protector for your bead breaker that you may want when you make another order.

Good tip on the bead breaker protector - thanks. I think that this is what you are referring to. At $50 it will have to wait until I successfully use this changer, before I throw any more money down that hole.



As for the swearing ... that is the beauty of editing. What you see is the fraction of the footage remaining after the swearing bits and more boring bits landed on the "cutting room floor".

[Lee]

Good tip on the bead breaker protector - thanks. I think that this is what you are referring to.

Yes that's the part.

[Liteitup]

Heat the tire on your driveway in the sun. You're in Houston, right?

More lube. Lube the drop center of the wheel so it's easier for the tire to get there. Lube the bead of the tire also.

Strap the wheel to the changer so it doesn't rotate with your efforts. I use a ratchet strap, spoke to changer arm.

Finish with spoons. Small bites. Use a cut up milk jug for rim protectors. Count them so you know how many you left in the assembly and have to redo the job, DAMHIK.

[Ray]

[Olgry1]

I feel your pain Wayne. No Mar has some good videos for both tire removal and installation.
Liteitup has some good suggestions. I have not tried the ratchet strap nor the plastic pieces for rim protectors but will in the future.
In the past I usually had someone helping me as needed through the process. I've found the heavy spec tires needed on "touring" bikes can be very difficult to change even with assistance.

[Duccrazydave]

Thanks for another informative video, GG. I can feel your frustration. I also have spoons and rim protectors (Motion Pro) from when I used my home made changer, that I sometimes still use with my No Mar. When using the yellow thing, you have to leave it in until the tire is completely installed. Pushing as much of the tire as you can below the rim, then locking it (the yellow thing) in as far to your right as possible leaves you with less tire to manage. And you should have been able to pop the lower bead on by hand when installing. Just get the center post out of the way first "You'll shoot your eye out, son", lol. Usually a thin film of the paste on the top lip of the rim facilitates that. The most aggravating thing is when the rim starts to spin. Even with the better cam lock clamps on my Classic, it takes quite a bit of "squeezing" of the rim to prevent that. I also have the clamps like on your Cycle Hill, but they were to make it easier to change traditional spoke rims due to the different rim/tire interface. When I have used them I had to use spoons as well because of the slippage. Last thing I can think of is making sure there is a thin film of paste in the center of the rim too. Everywhere that tire sticks during the install compounds the effort required. Lubing the underside and very edge of the tire, where the install lever touches, eliminates unnecessary dragging as well.
I'm certainly not an expert. but am trying to offer up tips that have helped me in the process.

[Lee]

Heat the tire on your driveway in the sun. You're in Houston, right?

More lube. Lube the drop center of the wheel so it's easier for the tire to get there. Lube the bead of the tire also.

Strap the wheel to the changer so it doesn't rotate with your efforts. I use a ratchet strap, spoke to changer arm.

Finish with spoons. Small bites. Use a cut up milk jug for rim protectors. Count them so you know how many you left in the assembly and have to redo the job, DAMHIK.

All good tips.

[Grumpy Goat]

Heat the tire on your driveway in the sun. You're in Houston, right?

More lube. Lube the drop center of the wheel so it's easier for the tire to get there. Lube the bead of the tire also.

Strap the wheel to the changer so it doesn't rotate with your efforts. I use a ratchet strap, spoke to changer arm.

Finish with spoons. Small bites. Use a cut up milk jug for rim protectors. Count them so you know how many you left in the assembly and have to redo the job, DAMHIK.

Excellent tip sheet! I see the wisdom of finishing with the spoons - I had come to the conclusion that it is probably a job that could utilize both spoons in addition to the tire changer.

Good tip on counting rim protectors also - now I know why some have straps!

Thanks.

[Grumpy Goat]

I've found the heavy spec tires needed on "touring" bikes can be very difficult to change even with assistance.

Yes the one I removed was a PR4 GT which is why it put up a fight to get off. But the Dunlop Roadsmart III that I tried to put on was not a heavy spec tire although it did seem to have sidewalls that were just as heavy as the PR4 GT.

I did watch all the No Mar videos but I don't believe there are any which demo the Cycle Hill changer with a tough rear wheel like this one.

I do believe that the answer is in the strap and more lube, also spoons for the last bit.

[Grumpy Goat]

Thanks for another informative video, GG. I can feel your frustration. I also have spoons and rim protectors (Motion Pro) from when I used my home made changer, that I sometimes still use with my No Mar. When using the yellow thing, you have to leave it in until the tire is completely installed. Pushing as much of the tire as you can below the rim, then locking it (the yellow thing) in as far to your right as possible leaves you with less tire to manage. And you should have been able to pop the lower bead on by hand when installing. Just get the center post out of the way first "You'll shoot your eye out, son", lol. Usually a thin film of the paste on the top lip of the rim facilitates that. The most aggravating thing is when the rim starts to spin. Even with the better cam lock clamps on my Classic, it takes quite a bit of "squeezing" of the rim to prevent that. I also have the clamps like on your Cycle Hill, but they were to make it easier to change traditional spoke rims due to the different rim/tire interface. When I have used them I had to use spoons as well because of the slippage. Last thing I can think of is making sure there is a thin film of paste in the center of the rim too. Everywhere that tire sticks during the install compounds the effort required. Lubing the underside and very edge of the tire, where the install lever touches, eliminates unnecessary dragging as well.
I'm certainly not an expert. but am trying to offer up tips that have helped me in the process.

Dave - these are wonderful tips - thanks very much for sharing! Agree that a lot more lube than what I used is needed. Also a warm tire. I wanted to change the tire in the cooler part of the day that is why I attempted to do this after supper, but as you can see there was no blazing Houston sun to heat the tire.

I could have clamped the rim harder I suppose, but I did not want to risk putting dents / flatter spots on the rims. I have no idea of where the strength limit of the rims are.

The Yellow Thing is a wonderful piece of kit and by the end of my struggle I realized it has to be left in from start to finish no matter what.

[Liteitup]

I haven't watched the NoMar videos in a long time. If they're like the old videos, and the demo at the motorcycle shows, the tire they use has been mounted and dismounted so often it should jump on the rim by itself. The technique is the same with a new tire, the effort required is not.

I use Murphy's Lube. I think I bought mine at O reilly's or Autozone. 8# tub will outlast me. Slather it all around the drop center, too much is better than not enough. Mix some w/water in a spray bottle as well.
http://www.bowessealfast.com/p-804-murph...gK3dPD_BwE

If you're struggling too much, you're doing it wrong. You can bend a rim with a spoon. Be prepared to walk away and try again. Again, DAMHIK.

[Grumpy Goat]

I agree that the No Mar demo tires look pretty softish ...

Good tip on the Murphy's Lube ... sounds like it is water-based (like I suspect the No Mar lube I have seems to be).

Don't doubt that you can bend a rim with a spoon ... that also worries me, but with rim protectors and the tips received from this thread it should not come to that.

Thanks again.

[Duccrazydave]

It is a little intimidating to squeeze the rim more with those clamps. The tip about strapping the rim to prevent rotation is spot on! The cam locks on the Classic probably hold better, but if the rim isn’t clean and dry at the point of contact they’ll slip just the same.
Here’s a pic of my changer ( and all of the junk around it) and of the extras I bought with it. Also the previously purchased Motion Pro products.
I know, it adds up. But I’m a hopeless tool junkie anyway



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Last thing I'll add: When I first got my No Mar I practiced with some old tires and a couple of rims from my brothers old (totalled) ZRX1100. Same size as the RS rims. You will get better at it, Wayne :-)

[Ray]

Here’s a pic of my changer ( and all of the junk around it) and of the extras I bought with it. Also the previously purchased Motion Pro products.
I know, it adds up. But I’m a hopeless tool junkie anyway


Last thing I'll add: When I first got my No Mar I practiced with some old tires and a couple of rims from my brothers old (totalled) ZRX1100. Same size as the RS rims. You will get better at it, Wayne :-)

Agree - stay on it. Watch a couple more videos of guys wrestling tires onto rims (or the guys at Fortnine slipping on an automobile tire), and you'll feel more comfortable in your application of diffuse force. If the fit is tight, the more tire irons and wood blocks (or sticks by the side of the road), the better....

That said, and not to steer this thread away from tires - but DC Dave - noticed the old Hauni badge on your work bench.... Italian bikes and German cigarettes seem like a bad match. With smoking tastes like that, I guess only natural you'd gravitate to BMW Motorrad.

[Grumpy Goat]

Here’s a pic of my changer ( and all of the junk around it) and of the extras I bought with it. Also the previously purchased Motion Pro products.
I know, it adds up. But I’m a hopeless tool junkie anyway
...
Last thing I'll add: When I first got my No Mar I practiced with some old tires and a couple of rims from my brothers old (totalled) ZRX1100. Same size as the RS rims. You will get better at it, Wayne :-)

Thanks Dave! Informative photos. I do like how you store the mount-demount bar .... never thought of that and will do likewise immediately after typing this. I have everything in the lower photo except the levers/spoons and rim protectors and screw down clamps.

Practice is what I need, but unfortunately don't have a separate wheel to practice on.

[Grumpy Goat]

Agree - stay on it. Watch a couple more videos of guys wrestling tires onto rims (or the guys at Fortnine slipping on an automobile tire), and you'll feel more comfortable in your application of diffuse force. If the fit is tight, the more tire irons and wood blocks (or sticks by the side of the road), the better....

Good advice. Thanks - will do. I expect a front tire would be next, so another learning experience with respect to being careful around big brake discs.

That said, and not to steer this thread away from tires - but DC Dave - noticed the old Hauni badge on your work bench.... Italian bikes and German cigarettes seem like a bad match. With smoking tastes like that, I guess only natural you'd gravitate to BMW Motorrad.

[Liteitup]

Front tires are a LOT easier than rears typically.

Cool idea on storing the bar.

Biggest problem I have is relearning the technique each time. I don't change often enough to get any muscle memory.

I can't emphasis lubing the drop center enough, that was a game changer.

[Grumpy Goat]

Front tires are a LOT easier than rears typically.

Cool idea on storing the bar.

Biggest problem I have is relearning the technique each time. I don't change often enough to get any muscle memory.

I can't emphasis lubing the drop center enough, that was a game changer.

I hear you. When you say “drop center” do you mean the center off the rim?