Hydrogen Powered ICE the future?

[mspratz]

Anyone who is holding out hope that hydrogen-powered internal combustion engine technology will be the savior of the ICE motorcycle (as was I) watch this and be dismayed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJjKwSF9gT8

[Grumpy Goat]

Anyone who is holding out hope that hydrogen-powered internal combustion engine technology will be the savior of the ICE motorcycle (as was I) watch this and be dismayed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJjKwSF9gT8

Thanks, but I long suspected that the internal combustion engine is not sustainable and, when you think of what is needed to put a fuel-cell/electric motor in a motorcycle (or car) to get equivalent results, I am not at all surprised at the result. This video reinforces that. I will confess I made it about 40% of the video before I lost interest and decided to go look up the Mirai. 

Yes, in the hydrogen-powered Yamaha V8 you'd have to drag around a huge volume of hydrogen to get the equivalent range of the gasoline-powered V8 in the Lexus RCF, but ... the emissions benefit not to mention the reduction in dependence on fossil fuels and oil from the ME means that hydrogen-powered vehicles will be worth it. He is looking at apples and oranges when it comes to the parameters going into this design problem. Looking at the Mirai - yes, it is slower and the range is shorter but the emissions is water. Problem with it is cost.

I found this article by Car & Driver interesting, and as I suspected battery-powered electric cars are presently more viable than hydrogen-powered ones, and both are alternatives to the non-sustainable fossil-fueled vehicles we presently enjoy. Again, the problem is cost and charging infrastructure.

[maxredline]

Here's the thing with H2. It takes a lot of energy to produce and compress Hydrogen gas. The only way it would be graded as "green" energy is if it is a result of manufacturing something else that would otherwise be released to the atmosphere. Present day, I believe most of this type of H2 is lightly compressed and used to fuel boiler burners as a percentage with natural gas.

[Grumpy Goat]

I tend to agree. The cachet with the H2 engine is the nice water exhaust, never mind that the process to get there is pretty darned impractical.

[maxredline]

I tend to agree. The cachet with the H2 engine is the nice water exhaust, never mind that the process to get there is pretty darned impractical.

Not to mention H2's effect on Metal. 
Hydrogen embrittlement

[Grumpy Goat]

Not to mention H2's effect on Metal. 
Hydrogen embrittlement

Indeed. That is definitely not good, to have your exposed parts getting more brittle as time goes on ... 

[SoCalR1200RS]

I live in LA and I've seen quite a few Mirai's on the road. A Chevron around the corner spent who knows how much $$ installing a H2 pump. I bet they got money from the state / gov't to do it. I never see anyone using it. Hydrogen was a good idea, but the issues with production, transportation and storage have not gone away while batteries have gotten significantly better. EVs though still do have to contend with their environmental impacts to produce as well. I think the real driver in terms of environmental friendliness is - how long will they be in use and how much pollutants will they produce to operate? While EVs might have a steeper cost to produce, their longevity and potential for zero-emissions operations (provided the source of your power is clean and renewable) makes them win out. I doubt many H2 vehicles will see more than 10 years of service life.

[Grumpy Goat]

Yeah, and that is a shame since we do have lots of hydrogen and I like the water exhaust.

[maxredline]

Kawasaki and H2

[36654]

Not to mention H2's effect on Metal. 
Hydrogen embrittlement

Indeed. That is definitely not good, to have your exposed parts getting more brittle as time goes on ... 

Wait a minute!  You're in the maritime world.  Stress corrosion cracking is your life....or, more correctly, the end of life for your equipment.

[Grumpy Goat]

Wait a minute!  You're in the maritime world.  Stress corrosion cracking is your life....or, more correctly, the end of life for your equipment.

Not so much. With ships it's simple straightforward cracking due to fatigue loading at improperly designed joint details. That said ships that carry natural gas (LNG) need to worry about embrittlement over time but even they use independent tanks, so it is not the vessel per se that is directly in jeopardy.

[36654]

No Aluminum hulls?

[Grumpy Goat]

No Aluminum hulls?

Not that I am aware of. I have only ever dealt with big steel ships. Even the yachts we class are steel hulled.

[36654]

No Aluminum hulls?

Not that I am aware of. I have only ever dealt with big steel ships. Even the yachts we class are steel hulled.

Steel is definitely better from a fatigue standpoint

[36654]

Recent Reuters articel on Hydrogen
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/...022-12-05/

[Grumpy Goat]

I suspect that hydrogen fuel-cell electric cars are going to be developed and that is a good thing. Being a fan of VW cars I was pleased to see this article:

Volkswagen is developing a hydrogen car with a 1,250-mile range.

No doubt the technology is evolving and as long as science and engineering are not stifled by the usual BS lobby pushed by greed, there may actually be some progress in the interest of the planet and sustainability.

Lots more on this topic so I move it to the "Off topic" forum where the subject can be more extensively discussed, as needed.