Someone other than Ryan (FortNine) is calling BS ... and is right on point when it comes to the technology behind motorcycle production.

He talked a lot, but I think the only thing he said was "price" - building motorcycle in some countries is cheaper than building them in other countries. He also mentioned reliability and features but he didn't add any useful information.

I was 20 years old when the Japanese revolutionized the American motorcycle market, it was obvious that they brought something that was not available before - the combination of reliability and low price.

If what's coming is better then what we have now, bring it on. I am ready.

He needs to reconcile his thesis with the fact that the premium manufacturers had record sales last year.

(03-13-2023, 08:06 AM)TriangleRider Wrote: He needs to reconcile his thesis with the fact that the premium manufacturers had record sales last year.

I don't know ... it's all relative. Not sure what "record sales" means if the previous record was set for one's self, in other words if a premium manufacturer sold 100 bikes the previous year and this year they sold 150, is that "record sales" ...? Not knocking what you're saying. 

Motorcycle riders are a niche market here, and have been in decline in recent years, or so we have been told. In a country where motorcycling is a luxury (as opposed to a transportation necessity e.g. think Asia) people are looking at other things to spend their money on and so the cheaper motorcycles (luxuries) will do better, especially if they are not crap and/or come with a good warranty. We've seen it before.

(03-12-2023, 05:41 PM)runnerhiker Wrote: He talked a lot, but I think the only thing he said was "price" - building motorcycle in some countries is cheaper than building them in other countries.  He also mentioned reliability and features but he didn't add any useful information.
...

I think, in making his point, those things (price, reliability and features) are the useful information. In a volume market those things will prop up the sales for things like motorcycles, unless people's wealth is seeing runaway growth. If the Chinese bikes can deliver adequate (dare I say good) feature set, performance and reliability, at thousands cheaper and with a similar warranty, then the pressure is on the rest of the market to deliver.

There is a CF Moto dealership five miles away from my house and I had a chance to look at a 2022 CFMoto 700CL-X Sport in the flesh. Build quality appeared to be great, and the feature set was impressive. ABS with Brembo Stylema 4-piston calipers on 320 mm twin rotors in front and a 2-piston caliper on the rear, auto-cancelling turn signals, cruise control, full LED lighting, etc. 74hp / 451 lbs wet, same tires as our bikes, and a 2-year transferable warranty. Price - $6,999. 

Now I have not ridden this bike, but I hardly think it will ride poorly. They have been receiving good reviews so far and after a few years who knows ... that was the point of the video, I think.

Then there is the "Chinese GS" (middleweight) from them the 2022 CFMoto Ibex 800T which comes in at $10,499 without luggage, and includes things like LED headlights, taillights, signal lights and fog lights; 7" TFT display with Bluetooth and CFMOTO Ride App connectivity, electronic throttle, sport and rain ride modes, cruise control, adjustable windscreen, heated grips, heated seat,
quickshifter, USB port, 12-volt DC. Sorry for the cut and paste but I am making a point.   I have not even seen this bike at that dealer but the engine is the same as the KTM 790 engine (they have a relationship with KTM) and the predecessor to this bike has good reviews, including for light-medium off-roading.

   

Unless we have a boycott of Chinese products in this country these bikes will make a difference in the market, especially with the younger demographic. (Did someone say that they mattered ...? )

All I can add is that I owned a CFMoto ATV and it was as reliable as the sunrise and as durable as my first wife's extreme dislike of me. Hard to top that.

(03-13-2023, 07:32 PM)Motorhead1977 Wrote: All I can add is that I owned a CFMoto ATV and it was as reliable as the sunrise and as durable as my first wife's extreme dislike of me. Hard to top that.

Pretty strong metaphors indeed.    Apparently CFMoto is big in the quad world (of which I have no knowledge). Sounds that at least they have the reliability part solved. That leaves the more elusive functional characteristics that make motorcycles so unique within themselves. They can’t trade on price alone.

(03-13-2023, 09:20 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:

(03-13-2023, 08:06 AM)TriangleRider Wrote: He needs to reconcile his thesis with the fact that the premium manufacturers had record sales last year.

I don't know ... it's all relative. Not sure what "record sales" means if the previous record was set for one's self, in other words if a premium manufacturer sold 100 bikes the previous year and this year they sold 150, is that "record sales" ...?

I don't know about the other premium brands but BMW Motorrad had it's best sales year ever in 2022.
Munich. BMW Motorrad achieved the highest sales in its corporate history with 202,895 motorcycles and scooters handed over to customers, which is an increase of +4.4 % compared to the previous year. BMW Motorrad remains in first place in the global premium motorcycle and scooter segment.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/ar...-s-history

The first point made regarding bikes on the road getting older.
You can get a lot of bike for the money on a well cared for 13 year old bike.
And arguably more exciting 8)

And the not so young
Chinese connections
Indian Connections

(03-13-2023, 09:56 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: Unless we have a boycott of Chinese products in this country these bikes will make a difference in the market, especially with the younger demographic. (Did someone say that they mattered ...? )

(09-11-2023, 06:27 PM)maxredline Wrote: And the not so young
Chinese connections
Indian Connections

It is convenient for some to ignore these kinds of facts ... wherever they may crop up, and not only in the motorcycle industry ...

The weakness I've seen in some of the Chinese offerings has been weight relative to the Japanese products. Beyond that, it's the issues of maintaining a dealer network & parts availability.