My brother reminded me today that during the 2nd week, when I felt the worst, a chest x-ray showed viral pneumonia. They also told me I had bronchitis. So I am not recovering from Covid with simple symptoms, if that had been the case, my doctor said it would have been about a two week sickness.

So I am recovering from Covid, viral pneumonia, and bronchitis. And I continue to recover slowly.

Thanks for your interest and concern.

(12-20-2020, 05:29 PM)runnerhiker Wrote: .

So I am recovering from Covid, viral pneumonia, and bronchitis. And I continue to recover slowly.

Thanks for your interest and concern.

Thanks for sharing. Your story keeps us honest if not humble

I was supposed to get my vaccination this month but looks like they have already fouled up the pipeline at the federal level with Missouri and Illinois receiving only half the shipment we were supposed to . So the next few weeks I am wandering among the infected patients with my fingers crossed and two masks and goggles....

So I am recovering from Covid, viral pneumonia, and bronchitis. And I continue to recover slowly.

Thanks for your interest and concern.
[/quote]

Hang in there Ron. Hope you continue to feel better in time.

After 2.5 weeks my good friend's wife is still in the hospital after battling Covid and now viral pneumonia.

Ray, I'd be very interested in any comments you might have on this. The guy rattles off stuff faster than I can absorb. Any valid information here? Thanks in advance: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CSVsKdBjeYc/

(08-10-2021, 06:43 AM)BobAintStoppin Wrote: Ray, I'd be very interested in any comments you might have on this. The guy rattles off stuff faster than I can absorb. Any valid information here? Thanks in advance: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CSVsKdBjeYc/

Not a well informed scientist. Hard to know how this guy's personal misinterpretation of the data gets attention. In part, this is obviously a pitch for his local "functional" family medicine practice.

He gets a lot of things wrong and speaks about what is true and not true on the basis of (his view of) science.... (Science is of course, probability. As summarized by one of my undergrad p-chem professors, "If you want truth, you need to go to the philosophy and theology departments.")

Nothing's changed, except that if you are vaccinated, you are not likely to get sick.

As I pointed out earlier, all the early data on ability to transmit the virus came from health care workers..., who were 100% vaccinated and all masked up at work. Once unmasked, the ability of asymptomatic folks to transmit the virus - especially to the unvaccinated - seems reasonable.

Given the nature of things, there's simply a lot more virus in crowds coming from asymptomatic people.

Masks still cut way back on probability of sucking in sufficient virus to overwhelm the system.

I'm currently running along the continental divide. On the days I hit the small towns, masks and infections are almost non-existent..., so I haven't really been paying attention to all the recent discussion.

Nice sign a few days ago - "Wyoming - where social distancing comes naturally."

Hope this finds all well with you and all. Stay good.

You take care as well Ray.

Interesting. My daughter was using that guy as reasoning why she is not getting the vax. Everyone else in the family can't get her to change her mind. She works at a beauty salon, so meets lots of people every day. Seems risky to me. I met the first person that had covid the other day when I sold him my Himalayan. But he had it a year ago, so no risk to me. School starting shortly and my daughter in law is a teacher. Fingers crossed for her.

Even my daughter was finding reasons not to get the vax but I think that on her part it was more laziness than anything else. She had mild-symptom Covid right from the start so that may have added to her sloth. She was also doubting whether to get my granddaughter (who turned 12 yesterday) vaccinated, even though she is going to school (since Wednesday this week) here in a State with an idiot governor and his no-mask-mandate policy!

That is when I put my foot down, grown or not. My wife made an appointment for both and they are supposed to be getting their first dose on Monday. So what if she was mad at me for a while. We have all made big sacrifices due to this pandemic for someone with their "own ideas" to come and undo it all by giving us Covid. I am all for people's right to choose and all that, but their right should not infringe upon my right to health and life, and cannot selfishly deplete the hospital resources that need to be available should we need it for whatever reason.

Furthermore I say not before I really get [more] grumpy.

(08-20-2021, 10:42 AM)Ray Wrote: Nice sign a few days ago - "Wyoming - where social distancing comes naturally."

Good sign

That's one reason we were comfortable riding through Nebraska, Wyoming, Colorado and Kansas two times in 2020.

(08-21-2021, 05:32 AM)BobAintStoppin Wrote: Interesting. My daughter was using that guy as reasoning why she is not getting the vax. Everyone else in the family can't get her to change her mind. She works at a beauty salon, so meets lots of people every day. Seems risky to me. I met the first person that had covid the other day when I sold him my Himalayan. But he had it a year ago, so no risk to me. School starting shortly and my daughter in law is a teacher. Fingers crossed for her.

My cousin is a coordinator (manager) for a "home healthcare aid" service and refuses to get vaccinated. Says she doesn't believe in it. Her mother and sister are completely baffled.

Hopefully, her grown children aren't following the same path.

(08-20-2021, 10:42 AM)Ray Wrote:

(08-10-2021, 06:43 AM)BobAintStoppin Wrote:

Nothing's changed, except that if you are vaccinated, you are not likely to get sick.

As I pointed out earlier, all the early data on ability to transmit the virus came from health care workers..., who were 100% vaccinated and all masked up at work. Once unmasked, the ability of asymptomatic folks to transmit the virus - especially to the unvaccinated - seems reasonable.

Given the nature of things, there's simply a lot more virus in crowds coming from asymptomatic people.

Masks still cut way back on probability of sucking in sufficient virus to overwhelm the system.

Ray, I am going to summarize with one liners. Please let me know whether I am on target or not.

1. The virus is not going away, we have no way to make it go away.
2. The vaccine does not get rid of the virus.
3. The vaccine helps a person that gets the virus to have a milder case, maybe even be asymptomatic.
4. A vaccinated person with the virus can give it to someone else. That someone else did not benefit at all that the contagious person was vaccinated. Only the vaccinated person stands to benefit from being vaccinated.

Some questions:
1. If a person is vaccinated but does not get the virus, does that person contribute anything towards herd immunity?

(08-21-2021, 11:30 PM)runnerhiker Wrote: Ray, I am going to summarize with one liners. Please let me know whether I am on target or not.


4. A vaccinated person with the virus can give it to someone else. That someone else did not benefit at all that the contagious person was vaccinated. Only the vaccinated person stands to benefit from being vaccinated.

I'm interested to see the answer to this question.
I had thought a vaccinated person could not spread the virus.

(08-22-2021, 06:30 AM)Lee Wrote:

(08-21-2021, 11:30 PM)runnerhiker Wrote: Ray, I am going to summarize with one liners. Please let me know whether I am on target or not.


4. A vaccinated person with the virus can give it to someone else. That someone else did not benefit at all that the contagious person was vaccinated. Only the vaccinated person stands to benefit from being vaccinated.

I'm interested to see the answer to this question.
I had thought a vaccinated person could not spread the virus.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nco...nated.html

"What We Know
- COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective at preventing COVID-19, including severe illness and death.
- COVID-19 vaccines are effective against severe disease and death from variants of the virus that causes COVID-19 currently circulating in the United States, including the Delta variant.
- Infections happen in only a small proportion of people who are fully vaccinated, even with the Delta variant. When these infections occur among vaccinated people, they tend to be mild.
- If you are fully vaccinated and become infected with the Delta variant, you can spread the virus to others.
- People with weakened immune systems, including people who take immunosuppressive medications, may not be protected even if fully vaccinated. '

(08-22-2021, 06:30 AM)Lee Wrote:

(08-21-2021, 11:30 PM)runnerhiker Wrote: Ray, I am going to summarize with one liners. Please let me know whether I am on target or not.


4. A vaccinated person with the virus can give it to someone else. That someone else did not benefit at all that the contagious person was vaccinated. Only the vaccinated person stands to benefit from being vaccinated.

I'm interested to see the answer to this question.
I had thought a vaccinated person could not spread the virus.

No vaccine is 100% effective. Covid-19 vaccines are in the 90% range of efficacy. So, vaccinated people do get Covid (termed a breakthrough infection). What we have learned is that when vaccinated people do get it, the disease severity is usually much less severe than for people who are not vaccinated. This is because the viral load in vaccinated people stays much lower compared to the unvaccinated. The flip side of this is that breakthrough cases will spread the disease because these people often won't know they are sick. For most viruses, this is not an issue. But the delta variant is one of the most transmissible respiratory viruses ever seen. So, even a low level infection in a vaccinated person can cause disease in another person.

One thing we are sure of is that viruses can get much more dangerous as they continually mutate and circulate through the population. The longer this goes on, the worse variants we could see.

Right.

As I noted, the initial conclusion that vaccinated folks won't spread the virus was based on study of transmission rates by the first folks vaccinated - health care workers, who know how to prevent transmission.... When transmission rates were negligible, the conclusion should have been that vaccinated people who behave like health care workers - wear masks at work, and avoid exposing others - will not pass on the virus, even if they get it. (Viruses other than the delta/Indian variant can also be transmitted - though perhaps not as readily.)

If a vaccinated person develops immunity from the vaccine (>90% chance), then he contributes to "herd" immunity.

Ironically, staying at the Quality Inn (under new management) in Gunnison tonight - last big town I'll hit before the rent-a-car place in El Paso. I recall noting last time I was here a year ago, that everyone was eventually going to get exposure to this virus and that immunity would come from either vaccines or infection. Individuals should make their choice, but TriangleRider's point that viral mutations only occur with infection and that mandatory school/workplace vaccination - as we do for mumps, measles and chickenpox - might be warranted to reduce the risk of potentially disabling/deadly vaccine-resistant strains in the near future. If tens of millions of Americans insist on developing their immunity (and perhaps illness/disability/death) by exposure, then more infectious and perhaps dangerous variants will arise more quickly.

For what it's worth, I find in my travels that science education in this country has not been universally effective. On this trip, I've had two college-educated folks ask me about how I handled the microchips I received with my vaccination through a 28 gauge needle (about 0.4 mm or 0.014 inches diameter). I assume the microchip would need a transmitter.... I know IBM announced new 2-nanometer chips that contain 50 billion transistors, but the discussion fell apart when neither had any idea what a nanometer was.

'nuf said, before I push someone's buttons.

More important - hard to picture Grumpy being grumpy..., but then, only our offspring know how to push those buttons.

y'all take care.

(08-31-2021, 07:09 PM)Ray Wrote: On this trip, I've had two college-educated folks ask me about how I handled the microchips I received with my vaccination through a 28 gauge needle (about 0.4 mm or 0.014 inches diameter). I assume the microchip would need a transmitter.... I know IBM announced new 2-nanometer chips that contain 50 billion transistors, but the discussion fell apart when neither had any idea what a nanometer was.

(08-31-2021, 07:09 PM)Ray Wrote: Ironically, staying at the Quality Inn (under new management) in Gunnison tonight

Interesting it sold again. When we stayed there in 2014 and 2015 it had a different owner than 2020.
I think the manager was the same all those years.

(08-31-2021, 07:09 PM)Ray Wrote: 'nuf said, before I push someone's buttons.

More important - hard to picture Grumpy being grumpy..., but then, only our offspring know how to push those buttons.

y'all take care.

Ray - you are right on the money, AFAIAC, and I am sure that your views and mine are coincident.

Happy to report that both my daughter and granddaughter go their shots and had no side effects, and yes you are right ... those closest to us know how to push our buttons best.

(08-31-2021, 07:09 PM)Ray Wrote: If a vaccinated person develops immunity from the vaccine (>90% chance), then he contributes to "herd" immunity.

Got it, thanks.