(09-04-2021, 04:00 AM)darrell Wrote: 7890 miles when I removed. Front still had a couple thousand left but rear completely used up.

Huh.

So, which tire's on now?

Saw a few 1200 and 1250 RSs at the dealership party yesterday. As I was leaving, noticed these tires on a lupin blue model. Didn't have time to track the owner down for yet another long discussion about what a rider of unknown skill and demeanor thinks about his tires.... That said, I'll try to get some follow-up.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Mutants, right?

(12-14-2021, 01:40 PM)runnerhiker Wrote: Mutants, right?

Right - relatively new and still sporting untouched sidewalls - so the owner probably does not have much to report at present.

But why did he or she buy them? That's the question I'd be after. Perhaps on the forum and reading Darrell's posts.

(12-14-2021, 07:36 PM)Ray Wrote:

(12-14-2021, 01:40 PM)runnerhiker Wrote: Mutants, right?

But why did he or she buy them? That's the question I'd be after. Perhaps on the forum and reading Darrell's posts.

As I inquire about the Mutant, my hypothesis that needs to be proven or unproven is that the Mutant is softer, stickier, handles better, and gets fewer miles than the Roadsmart IV. If that turns out to be right, I would go Mutants on my S1000 XR and RS IV on my R1250 RS.

My guess is that Dunlop is giving us a different balance of miles vs cornering handling.

I need to answer this question myself because my XR will need tires soon.

Copied from advrider.

There Are No Terrible Motorcycle Tires
Tire Tech has come a long way

Those of us who have been riding for a long time remember the days when all motorcycle tires were very different, and choices were slim. It was radials and bias ply, or knobbies vs racing tires. I’m talking times when dual sport tires didn’t even exist. Dual compound what? Some tires were just trash from the moment we mounted them on the rims. It wasn’t unusual to find tires that had no (or worse, unpredictable) grip. Often, they were rotten in the rain, rotten in the cold, or weirdly sensitive to road surface.

Friends, tire technology has come a long, long way. It continues to scream along. In only the past decade, motorcycle tire manufacturers have made incredible improvements.

Current inflated prices and supply chain issues notwithstanding, we’re living in a golden age of tire tech. You can dial in the exact rubber your bike will love. Often those tires will be trustworthy until their end of life.

The old adage for tires used to be “cheap, sticky, long-lasting: pick two.” These days, though, major tire manufacturers are managing to create tires that are all three.

What Changed?

In the tire business, the “magic triangle” is abrasion resistance (long-lasting), rolling resistance (or lack thereof), and traction (especially wet traction) for acceleration, cornering and effective braking. Breakthroughs in tread compounds are where the magic is happening.


Inexpensive, sticky, and (relatively) long-lasting: we can finally have it all.
Tire ingredients comprise rubber (of course), and carbon black, an elastomer reinforcement, which decreases rolling resistance, increasing fuel efficiency. More recently, manufacturers have added silica compounds to the mix, which strengthen the compound further improving rolling resistance, while simultaneously increasing traction of the rubber on the road surface, especially in wet conditions.

Why Silica?

Silica-filled rubber includes silanes. These compounds chemically link the rubber to the silica, so that even in a high-impact or a very cold or wet environment, the silica-rubber compound won’t crack or chip. The tread remains pliable but strong. There’s also some science behind silica-filled rubber compounds and water penetration.

We Have More Choices Now

These features are all tunable depending on the needs of the vehicle. When it comes to motorcycles, grip is still king, so motorcycle tires are still biased (see what I did there?) toward traction. Manufacturers create different models of tires within a given style; for instance, anything labeled “GT” is for a heavier touring bike.

The proportion of rubber to carbon black to silica, as well as the construction of the tread itself (we’ve all seen dual-compound tires) are extremely closely-guarded industry secrets. But, truly, the days of super crappy tires are over. If you have long-held prejudices against a given tire manufacturer, it’s time to rethink.

You’re going to have a story about a bad tire; we all do. But was that tire manufactured in the last five years?

Surely, the “which tires should I mount on my bike for my next adventure” flame wars will never die. Try saying “oh, they’re all good these days!” It might not fix the problem but it will probably add to the excitement.

Updated post #1 in this thread.  Installed a new set of Dunlop Roadsmart IV tires today.  11,753 miles on the same model set removed.

On a side note on my 3rd set of rear brake pads and still have the original front brake pads never having changed those after 147,000 miles.  Mechanic told me my front pads probably have a couple of tire changes left in them before considering changing.

(08-30-2022, 06:34 PM)darrell Wrote: Updated post #1 in this thread.  Installed a new set of Dunlop Roadsmart IV tires today.  11,753 miles on the same model set removed.

On a side note on my 3rd set of rear brake pads and still have the original front brake pads never having changed those after 147,000 miles.  Mechanic told me my front pads probably have a couple of tire changes left in them before considering changing.  (On a joking note I told him I have resolved a pair of boots)

My RS4's were done at 7,000 miles.  That is still good for me, so I put on another set.

My S1000XR now has Mutants, I only have about 500 miles on them so I don't have much to say. The Mutant 1st impression was that it felt stiffer than the RS3's that came off the XR. I started at the recommended 36/42 psi but have now lowered that to 33/38 and they feel "normal" stiff to me now. I'll be taking a 6 day trip on the XR in about a month and I plan to put the pressure back to 36/42 for the loaded bike.

The RS3's lasted a little over 9k miles on the XR and they always felt planted and secure.

(08-30-2022, 06:34 PM)darrell Wrote: Updated post #1 in this thread.  Installed a new set of Dunlop Roadsmart IV tires today.  11,753 miles on the same model set removed.

On a side note on my 3rd set of rear brake pads and still have the original front brake pads never having changed those after 147,000 miles.  Mechanic told me my front pads probably have a couple of tire changes left in them before considering changing.  (On a joking note I told him I have resolved a pair of boots)

That is a lot of miles on the RS IVs. I’d probably get over 10k miles. As for the brakes on your bike … I could never understand that wear distribution. I am yet to change my rear pads after almost 59k. Difference in riding style I guess.

(08-31-2022, 06:35 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:

(08-30-2022, 06:34 PM)darrell Wrote: Updated post #1 in this thread.  Installed a new set of Dunlop Roadsmart IV tires today.  11,753 miles on the same model set removed.

On a side note on my 3rd set of rear brake pads and still have the original front brake pads never having changed those after 147,000 miles.  Mechanic told me my front pads probably have a couple of tire changes left in them before considering changing.  (On a joking note I told him I have resolved a pair of boots)

That is a lot of miles on the RS IVs. I’d probably get over 10k miles. As for the brakes on your bike … I could never understand that wear distribution. I am yet to change my rear pads after almost 59k. Difference in riding style I guess.

Riding style  and environment makes all the difference. I have changed my front rotors already lots of city riding. I don't get much.

Rather than make a new thread, I'll add my quick update here. Just snapped the second set of rubber bands on the bike since I got her.

6/1/22 - 4,218mi - Bridgestone Battleaxe S22 (not by choice...) - Cost: $450.93 installed - Lifespan: 7,608mi
11/11/22 - 11,826mi - Metzler Z8 (Only stock I could find) - Cost: $664.40 installed !!!!!

I'm quite happy with the Z8s so far, and think they'll do well for a daily winter commuter. At my riding rate, I'll probably be replacing these in late-March, early April. Only thing that stung was the price! $186 above the cost of the tires. 1.25 hours of labor. This was at a dealer. The usual tire shop I go to - the guy was about to try to sell me a set of GPRs! Dulop recommends those for a 300cc bike...

I would have preferred the RoadSmart IV and will certainly try to get those next.

Really good library so far 

Last two sets I have used, not a very well known road brand (more likely enduro and off road),

1st pair: Mitas Touring force
2nd pair: Mitas Sport Force ev

I used Touring force on my commute (cb500f) before, so i did install on RS. I did not liked them on RS. Too stiff, low adhesion to surface becauze of the torque RS has, tc light was often notice (after 1/2 thead life 3500km) even with normal riding.
They lasted 6500km.

I have used 3 sport forces on my previous tracer and I liked them.
Quality/price they're good and they provide a lot of agility on RS but them are too soft for the RS wheight imo. ( I feel they bend more than they should on twisties, I would like to feel more amount of rubber on the curve)


I would repeat them but they will last 4 to 5k km so I would like something more durable and better for wet roads also.



As tyre prices skyrocket on last year and half, I checked every touring tyre brand and model so my choice will be T31. Had a really good experience in the past with S21, the front tyre was  so good, really good on the brakes on the twisties and generally bridgestone have good front tyres, also it have better price from what dealer have found, less 100€ that some sport touring from other well know brands.

I will update on them later

(06-18-2023, 02:32 PM)VelasquezRider Wrote: Really good library so far 

Last two sets I have used, not a very well known road brand (more likely enduro and off road),

1st pair: Mitas Touring force
2nd pair: Mitas Sport Force ev
...

Mitas is not so unknown as you might think, although are more popular off-road as you noted. They are now owned by Yokohama TWS - see here. The "TWS" is Swedish "Trelleborg Wheel Systems" which was bought out by Yokohama in 2022.

Dunlop and Mitas were the only two vendors at the national really selling and mounting tires.  Their outdoor stands were very close together.  Very few were installed at the Mitas booth from my observations over several hours.  Mitas had one lift under the canopy and did the tire changing in their small trailer so not sure what they used for tire removal/mounting and balancing.

Dunlop had 3 lifts, 2 electric operated tire changers and two electronic spin balancers.  The person leading the changing crew runs a mobile tire changing service based out of the Quad Cities in IA/IL.  Said he only does rallies around the US except for one store his has in IL or IN (can’t remember what he told me.

Dunlop just released a RSIV 19” front tire that many riders who came needing tires learned of so decided to go that way as they never take the GS/GSA bikes off paved roads.

I was just checking tire prices and was surprised how much prices have increased.

Current Roadsmart IV Cycle Gear/Revzilla Prices

120/70-17 - $192.36
180/55-17 - $255.48

Last time I bought Roadsmart IV tires at Moons Motorsports was on 12/6/22.

120/70-17 - $137.95
180/33-17 - $182.95

Have tires gone up that much from Dec 22 to June 23?  Of course the $100 rebate with mounting brings final costs down.

(06-19-2023, 06:53 AM)darrell Wrote: I was just checking tire prices and was surprised how much prices have increased.

Current Roadsmart IV Cycle Gear/Revzilla Prices

120/70-17 - $192.36
180/55-17 - $255.48

Last time I bought Roadsmart IV tires at Moons Motorsports was on 12/6/22.

120/70-17 - $137.95
180/33-17 - $182.95

Have tires gone up that much from Dec 22 to June 23?  Of course the $100 rebate with mounting brings final costs down.

I just did $168 and $221 on 23 May 2023 for newly manufactured RSIVs at Gateway BMW - and they also took the time to submit the paperwork for the (ongoing) $100 rebate. (This time, I brought pumpkin bread instead of doughnuts.) 

I'm a Revzilla Pro member (which gets me access to REVER pro mapping with Butler overlays for free), but I will never understand why we don't give the local guys a chance before jumping on the "discount prices" of warehoused tires (or helmets). I've never had to mention Revzilla/Cycle Gear prices, because the local guys and gals have never quoted me a price above minimum advertised price (MAP). 

Just for yucks, @Darrell, you should also include Moon's latest quote.

Which reminds me, talked to the No-Mar folks - fellow St. Louisans - who also made the rally this year (though inside). As I believe was noted on another thread, the Nemishes now have a new site for Moto-Tire USA that is doing well, and will hopefully be a model for the future. https://www.nomartirechanger.com/about.html

(I should note, that as I've gotten older, Steve admitted the tire changers have gotten lower to the ground; it wasn't just me.)

(06-19-2023, 12:44 PM)Ray Wrote: ... but I will never understand why we don't give the local guys a chance before jumping on the "discount prices" of warehoused tires (or helmets). I've never had to mention Revzilla/Cycle Gear prices, because the local guys and gals have never quoted me a price above minimum advertised price (MAP). ...

I don't think that it is [just] price. Buying from a bricks and mortar place involves actually driving there with the 15 mpg cage and back home (if simply buying) in order to get the tires. That costs gas money and your own time, as opposed to click-click-click and the tire is at your front door in a couple of days. (I one had it delivered from Revzilla in 1 day). Even if the prices were the same, buying online is cheaper overall.

Now, what might sway a person to get up and actually go to the bricks and mortar place despite that is, if you are going there anyway, or if you really like the people there and they offer you something tangible like great service at a reasonable price. Even reasonable prices on mounting a new tire (that you take off the bike and bring in) could be a reason, instead of the 1/2 hour that they want to charge which, with tax, could be like $75. For me I don't enjoy any of that.

Sure, I like the people at my dealership well enough but ...

Yes, I agree. Tyre prices went skyrocket lately

My dealer gave me this quote 2 weeks ago for a pair, fitted and calibrated:
T32 - 340€
Road 6 - 370€
Angel 2 - 338€
Conti roadattack 4 -345 €
T31 - 275€

I don't think that the pair above are almost 100€ better than a t31 or equivalent imo. We dont have rebate here in Europe, al teast not common here in Portugal with exception 2/3 years ago for a rebate of 40€ by michelin to install road 5 and that's it :/

(06-19-2023, 02:21 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:

(06-19-2023, 12:44 PM)Ray Wrote: ... but I will never understand why we don't give the local guys a chance before jumping on the "discount prices" of warehoused tires (or helmets). I've never had to mention Revzilla/Cycle Gear prices, because the local guys and gals have never quoted me a price above minimum advertised price (MAP). ...

...Even if the prices were the same, buying online is cheaper overall....

In the following, I simply advocate for email, chat, or call - don't just click on a minimum advertised price. 

I think you missed part of the point - the prices were not the same. Without asking, the price from the dealership was $59 less than Revzilla. With an additional $100 rebate for Dunlop Pro mounting, for some of us, the whole process becomes financially reasonable. 
 
Similarly, 2 y ago, without any negotiation I bought my Shoei X-14 from the dealer for more than $100 less than the Revzilla "sale" price (i.e., MAP).

(And as with the helmet purchase, when I bought a new headlamp bulb the other day to replace my spare, I rode my pedal bike - which has a trailer capable of transporting tires. Didn't Darrell already post photos of how to avoid that 15 mpg cage to get tires to and from the shop on the back of an RS?)

I understand the appeal of on-line purchases (I just ordered another couple pair of reading glasses to keep in the tool chests) - and if I still craved the the satisfaction of mounting and balancing tires, I'd consider on-line action, though as Darrell and others have pointed out, when I say warehoused tires, I mean tires that might be on sale because they spent the last 3-6 years stored in places without great temperature control. One needs to be careful of point and click purchases. 

In that context, I'll admit - I like the idea of a brick and mortar dealership/show place where I can drink coffee and try out different bikes without standing in line at a trailer, shoot the breeze with professional mechanics who've seen and fixed everything that can go wrong with my specific model of bike, and hobnob with guys who've spent a lifetime on two wheels. I hear what you are saying; not everyone needs or enjoys that kind of interaction.  

So finally to the point. If your dealership is not worth supporting, then find folks who are, and who will ship to your garage. In that vein, I like the idea of supporting ex-racers like the Nemishes (Mototire/No-Mar) who want to provide superior tire sales and service just for motorcyclists, not just because they're good people who are free with advice, but because they're really good at what they do (and will beat any minimum advertised price any day you call instead of click). "MotoTireUSA.com.Discount Motorcycle Tires with Free shipping or Free Mount and Balance, Hundreds in stock everyday. Emergency service." My kind of people. (This is not a paid advertisement.)

Now - go get some miles and smiles and grind down some tires. 

(06-19-2023, 09:29 PM)Ray Wrote: In the following, I simply advocate for email, chat, or call - don't just click on a minimum advertised price. 

I think you missed part of the point - the prices were not the same. Without asking, the price from the dealership was $59 less than Revzilla. With an additional $100 rebate for Dunlop Pro mounting, for some of us, the whole process becomes financially reasonable. 
 
Similarly, 2 y ago, without any negotiation I bought my Shoei X-14 from the dealer for more than $100 less than the Revzilla "sale" price (i.e., MAP)
....

Good points of course. I have never seen lower prices than online, and definitely not at that magnitude of a discount, and if I had seen prices like that it definitely would be worthwhile going to the bricks and mortar place.

As for the mounting / balancing my own ... if there is a place that would vulcanize and mount my used tires they would get my business (including tire sales) and I would not have to keep buying tire mounting apparatuses. Replacing tires just because of a silly nail is a sore point with me, and that is what all of these tire sellers like to push. It is simply wasteful and not environmentally friendly.

As for riding ... still have not ridden due to this blasted heat and humidity. Drove the truck to work today ...