It was almost serendipitous that, after my last rant about BMW Motorrad not marketing the R 12xx RS sufficiently, I happened to some across a couple of videos on YouTube suggesting that perhaps sport touring is coming back. Not only that, but this South African "Bike Show" video released today from Spain asks the question "2022 BMW R 1250 RS, still the best the way to go sport touring?"



The video is quite balanced, I think, and makes the case that the RS sees pressure from other BMW stablemates such as the R 1250 GS and the S 1000 XR, when it comes to touring duties, and that the RS may perhaps be too specialized to allow for the "adventure" challenge posed by the GS, and not "sporty" enough to push back against the XR. The reviewer does take time to differentiate between the adventure-bike-style sporty tourer vs the genuine article, and also creates space between the RS and the big tourers like the K1600 family and the R 1250 RT.

Then there is this other video from MCN in the UK (which I respect a lot) which compares cheaper alternatives such as the 2022 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT and the 2022 Kawasaki Ninja 1000SX - both exciting and capable machines that are significantly cheaper than the RS. The do mention the RS in passing as a classic sport tourer as they continue with their comparison of these two bikes.



Meanwhile Big Red has seen fit to release its brand new NT 1100 which is well-received thus far even if a bit under-powered compared to the other bikes above.



Point is, discounting the adventure-bike-style bikes, sport touring appears to be coming back - at least in markets other than North America where motorcycling is viewed a bit differently than in Europe - thank you American cruiser. People who love the RS like a bike that is capable of all day touring with a bit of sport-bike thrown in. Not all of us can afford a bike for every mood, and those of us who like to actually go somewhere when they jump on the bike instead of pretending to be some sort of canyon-carving, MotoGP rider-wannabe, the powerful, technologically capable and comfortable sport tourer is a winner.

So, in the face of this resurgence by the competition, will BMW start telling people that it actually makes such a bike and that it invented the genre? Or will they just let it wither on the vine?

GG, my guess is that BMW will spend more time figuring out new was to nickel and dime customers rather than promotion. Indeed unfortunate.

I believe that if the manufactures would pay more attention to ergonomic versatility in stock form the sport touring segment would grow from that alone. The RS has different seats which is a good option but could they not have one that is adjustable to go along with adjustable handlebars? That would be sweet.

(03-28-2022, 08:10 PM)maxredline Wrote: I believe that if the manufactures would pay more attention to ergonomic versatility in stock form the sport touring segment would grow from that alone. The RS has different seats which is a good option but could they not have one that is adjustable to go along with adjustable handlebars? That would be sweet.

I agree. While I find the RSs seat comfortable (moreso than the Tracer's) I do wish that it had some height adjustment. The Tracer has 2 heights and I have it on the lower height for my 30" inseam. A taller rider could enjoy some additional height. The RS? You have to buy a whole 'nother seat.

Sport touring segment is coming back and BMW needs to get a clue, IMO. Suzuki and Kawasaki both have similar format sport tourers that are significantly cheaper and would probably give the RS a good run in the marketplace.

(03-28-2022, 08:10 PM)maxredline Wrote: I believe that if the manufactures would pay more attention to ergonomic versatility in stock form the sport touring segment would grow from that alone. The RS has different seats which is a good option but could they not have one that is adjustable to go along with adjustable handlebars? That would be sweet.

I like how the K1200RS was equipped.
The bars had several positions.
Foot pegs had two positions.
Seat had two positions.
Windshield had two positions.

(03-29-2022, 07:29 AM)Lee Wrote: I like how the K1200RS was equipped.
The bars had several positions.
Foot pegs had two positions.
Seat had two positions.
Windshield had two positions.

At this price-point, that is how it should be, and these are not high-tech changes either. Simply changes that involve part re-design. From the above list, even the current RS only has the windshield adjustability; the other items require buying additional aftermarket (not even BMW) parts.

(03-29-2022, 07:29 AM)Lee Wrote: I like how the K1200RS was equipped.
The bars had several positions.
Foot pegs had two positions.
Seat had two positions.
Windshield had two positions.

Could't agree more. Why not return to this.

(03-29-2022, 08:33 PM)Pyrrho Wrote:

(03-29-2022, 07:29 AM)Lee Wrote: I like how the K1200RS was equipped.
The bars had several positions.
Foot pegs had two positions.
Seat had two positions.
Windshield had two positions.

Could't agree more. Why not return to this.

Wish they would. Like Wayne said all those options only take a simple design change and cost very little.

Maybe the new 2023 M1300GS has all these features from the previous K1200RS including a 17” front tire.

If so my order will be completed day 1 the dealer starts taking orders.

(03-30-2022, 08:24 AM)darrell Wrote: Maybe the new 2023 M1300GS has all these features from the previous K1200RS including a 17” front tire.

If so my order will be completed day 1 the dealer starts taking orders.

Here's my guess.
The R1300GS will arrive 2023.
The M1300 and R1400 will arrive 2024.

(03-30-2022, 10:31 AM)Lee Wrote: Here's my guess.
The R1300GS will arrive 2023.
The M1300 and R1400 will arrive 2024.

And if you are right and very likely could be I can leave my money on 0.05% interest until the “M” road version arrives. I was sharing with Bruce this morning I think they will have to bring something out in 2023 with the 100th anniversary. And it has to be more then a paint job on some current model bike.

(03-30-2022, 10:54 AM)darrell Wrote: I was sharing with Bruce this morning I think they will have to bring something out in 2023 with the 100th anniversary. And it has to be more then a paint job on some current model bike.

I think that they are waiting to see how the other 100th anniversary bike is doing ... snooze you lose. Can't wait to try this one.

   

(03-30-2022, 11:11 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:

(03-30-2022, 10:54 AM)darrell Wrote: I was sharing with Bruce this morning I think they will have to bring something out in 2023 with the 100th anniversary. And it has to be more then a paint job on some current model bike.

I think that they are waiting to see how the other 100th anniversary bike is doing ... snooze you lose. Can't wait to try this one.

I could see a reconfigured version of that bike being the BMW M1300GS model and easily converted to a R or RS model.

(03-30-2022, 11:11 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I think that they are waiting to see how the other 100th anniversary bike is doing ... snooze you lose. Can't wait to try this one.

Agreed!
https://www.motoguzzi.com/ca_EN/

(03-30-2022, 07:46 PM)maxredline Wrote:

(03-30-2022, 11:11 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I think that they are waiting to see how the other 100th anniversary bike is doing ... snooze you lose. Can't wait to try this one.

Agreed!
https://www.motoguzzi.com/ca_EN/

I was really interested in that bike when I saw the pictures and videos, but I soon lost interest.
Moto Guzzi has a poor dealer locator tool. I can't find a dealer within 300 miles of us.
The other problem is I like torque and the V 100 only has 77.
My 1250 has 105, my 1200 had 92 and my K1300 had 103.

(03-31-2022, 07:48 AM)Lee Wrote: I was really interested in that bike when I saw the pictures and videos, but I soon lost interest.
Moto Guzzi has a poor dealer locator tool. I can't find a dealer within 300 miles of us.
The other problem is I like torque and the V 100 only has 77.
My 1250 has 105, my 1200 had 92 and my K1300 had 103.

Yes lack of a widespread dealer network is certainly a negative.

I hear you about the torque, but the reason why people like torque is the gratifying "pull" during acceleration or during low speed riding. That pull does not exist on its own, and is tied to the appropriate gearing for the satisfying seat-of-the-pants feeling or no lugging at slow speed.

My Tracer puts out 60 lb.ft at the wheel (about 65 at the crank) and is quite satisfying when it comes to both acceleration and low speed lugless riding, even while loaded for camping or with my wife on the back. I think that the Mandello at 77 lb.ft might be quite nice with the right gearing on what will possibly be a lighter bike. Had the Tracer for the first time last evening in the [relative] twisty roads in the Sam Houston National Forest north of Houston, and it handled the ride and the speeds very nicely indeed. I will say that the chassis did not feel the same as the RS in the high speed curves, but that is probably more down to me and suspension setup than the bike.

(04-01-2022, 07:57 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:

(03-31-2022, 07:48 AM)Lee Wrote: I was really interested in that bike when I saw the pictures and videos, but I soon lost interest.
Moto Guzzi has a poor dealer locator tool. I can't find a dealer within 300 miles of us.
The other problem is I like torque and the V 100 only has 77.
My 1250 has 105, my 1200 had 92 and my K1300 had 103.

I hear you about the torque, but the reason why people like torque is the gratifying "pull" during acceleration or during low speed riding. That pull does not exist on its own, and is tied to the appropriate gearing for the satisfying seat-of-the-pants feeling or no lugging at slow speed.

I like a lot of torque when on a twisty road accelerating out of a curve.

(04-01-2022, 09:12 AM)Lee Wrote:

(04-01-2022, 07:57 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I hear you about the torque, but the reason why people like torque is the gratifying "pull" during acceleration or during low speed riding. That pull does not exist on its own, and is tied to the appropriate gearing for the satisfying seat-of-the-pants feeling or no lugging at slow speed.

I'm not talking about low speeds or lugging in town.
I like a lot of torque when on a twisty road accelerating out of a curve.

I know ... that is why there is an "or" in what I said above.

I too like the torque for the acceleration of the big boxer twin. Just making the point that it doesn't begin and end with big torque numbers. The effect in performance seen by the rider can be made similar with smaller torque and proper gearing.

(04-01-2022, 09:30 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:

(04-01-2022, 09:12 AM)Lee Wrote:

(04-01-2022, 07:57 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I hear you about the torque, but the reason why people like torque is the gratifying "pull" during acceleration or during low speed riding. That pull does not exist on its own, and is tied to the appropriate gearing for the satisfying seat-of-the-pants feeling or no lugging at slow speed.

I'm not talking about low speeds or lugging in town.
I like a lot of torque when on a twisty road accelerating out of a curve.

I know ... that is why there is an "or" in what I said above.

I too like the torque for the acceleration of the big boxer twin. Just making the point that it doesn't begin and end with big torque numbers. The effect in performance seen by the rider can be made similar with smaller torque and proper gearing.

I thought I deleted my first sentence. Must not have hit save.

(04-01-2022, 09:30 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: Just making the point that it doesn't begin and end with big torque numbers. The effect in performance seen by the rider can be made similar with smaller torque and proper gearing.

I would think engine design is more important.
The 1200 and 1250 has the same gearing but with the shiftcam the low and midrange torque feels a lot stronger than the 1200 engine.