According to this video the new GS models will be R1300GS, R1400GS, and M1300GS. Does this mean that there will be a new RS with one of those engines / tunes? Which one? R1400RS? M1300RS (since it is billed as a sport bike on the BMW website)?

IF there will even be another RS -- and if judging by the way BMW has almost made the RS invisible in its marketing and promotion that's not a bet I'd make -- it likely won't arrive for at least another one to two years after the GS.

(04-09-2022, 10:46 AM)Pyrrho Wrote: IF there will even be another RS -- and if judging by the way BMW has almost made the RS invisible in its marketing and promotion that's not a bet I'd make -- it likely won't arrive for at least another one to two years after the GS.

I might be ready by then judging by the prices I am seeing now, which I am hoping is artificially high due to "supply chain issues" etc. Couple hours ago I saw a nice 2018 R1200GS with 20+k miles on the clock and the dealer was asking something like $19.5k. They also list a 2022 R1250RT for over $26k. I love the RT all right but I am not paying that much ... that is K1600 territory.

As I get closer to retirement I can see my wallet getting much harder to open ... prices better start dropping.

(04-09-2022, 01:22 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:

(04-09-2022, 10:46 AM)Pyrrho Wrote: IF there will even be another RS -- and if judging by the way BMW has almost made the RS invisible in its marketing and promotion that's not a bet I'd make -- it likely won't arrive for at least another one to two years after the GS.

I might be ready by then judging by the prices I am seeing now, which I am hoping is artificially high due to "supply chain issues" etc. Couple hours ago I saw a nice 2018 R1200GS with 20+k miles on the clock and the dealer was asking something like $19.5k. They also list a 2022 R1250RT for over $26k. I love the RT all right but I am not paying that much ... that is K1600 territory.

As I get closer to retirement I can see my wallet getting much harder to open ... prices better start dropping.

I think premium motorcycles are now $25k to $30k, I don't think prices are coming down, we are in inflationary times and prices are not flexible downward.

(04-09-2022, 05:49 PM)runnerhiker Wrote: I think premium motorcycles are now $25k to $30k, I don't think prices are coming down, we are in inflationary times and prices are not flexible downward.

I am afraid that you might be right. It then begs the question ... what makes a premium bike premium and is it work the extra money?

The market will bear what it will, especially when motorcycling is supposedly on the decline. Astronomical prices is no way to encourage the younger set to get into motorcycling.

(04-09-2022, 05:49 PM)runnerhiker Wrote: I think premium motorcycles are now $25k to $30k, I don't think prices are coming down, we are in inflationary times and prices are not flexible downward.

$25K to 30? More like 40+ if you include specced-out HDs. The dealership I placed my RS order at sold two Ducati Superleggera v4s this year already, at $100K each.

(04-09-2022, 08:30 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I am afraid that you might be right. It then begs the question ... what makes a premium bike premium and is it work the extra money?

"Premium" is typically considered within the marketing industry as something priced at least 20% above market average. Qualitative comparisons aren't really considered, except in relation to justification of the increased price. Premium has become a synonym of expensive. iI like to refer to bikes like the RS as luxury instead of premium for this reason (ie, luxury sport tourer).

(04-09-2022, 08:30 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: Astronomical prices is no way to encourage the younger set to get into motorcycling.

I feel that as prices continue to rise, lower-end brands and models will always be around to fill the gap. See the resurgent popularity of Royal Enfield, for instance. Rising gas prices could easily get people looking more seriously at bikes for commuting, too. Look at BMW's scooter and e-bike initiatives -- they're looking towards where the puck is going.

(04-09-2022, 08:53 PM)Pyrrho Wrote: "Premium" is typically considered within the marketing industry as something priced at least 20% above market average. Qualitative comparisons aren't really considered, except in relation to justification of the increased price.

I agree and that is my problem with it. I guess I am [still] looking for a nexus between good quality / reliability and the premium price. Seems that in many cases the premium price is just the price for exclusivity while quality and reliability are no better (and in some cases worse) than the non-premium brands. Makes one re-evaluate what really is one's goal here ....

(04-09-2022, 08:53 PM)Pyrrho Wrote: I feel that as prices continue to rise, lower-end brands and models will always be around to fill the gap. See the resurgent popularity of Royal Enfield, for instance. Rising gas prices could easily get people looking more seriously at bikes for commuting, too. Look at BMW's scooter and e-bike initiatives -- they're looking towards where the puck is going.

Again I agree although those looking to motorcycling as a way to save gas (and I suspect that many are contemplating that) are likely to not used that saved money to by a premium bike ... which likely drinks premium gas as well.

I don't mind spending the money of I can see the real value in it. I can't stand BS pricing without justification.

Even if a new 1300cc RS comes out, I doubt I would ever consider upgrading. I am likely to keep my 2016 RS for as long as I ride. I don't do enough miles in a year to wear out the bike. Especially as I own another bike.

If I do need another bike due to some calamity and I have insurance money to spend, there are so many good bikes in Europe in the sub £12000 ($15600) category. Honda & Suzuki have recently launched new sport tourers to compete with the Yamaha Tracer & Kawasaki Z1000 Ninja. Then there are some lovely bikes from Triumph and Moto Guzzi (although the V100 is edging towards premium pricing). BMW's offerings in this sector are there but pretty dull in comparison.

Personally, I don't need a bigger engine or more weight. But, I do prefer shaft drive. Therefore, I'll keep the R1200RS until some lighter shaft drive comes to market.

(04-10-2022, 04:46 AM)wessie Wrote: Even if a new 1300cc RS comes out, I doubt I would ever consider upgrading. I am likely to keep my 2016 RS for as long as I ride. I don't do enough miles in a year to wear out the bike. Especially as I own another bike.

I feel the same way as you on this, but I have learned to never say "never". My R1200RS is my first BMW and my little story of how I got it on the "rebound" after initially lusting for an S1000XR, and then not loving the RS even after buying it, then falling in love with it after the first long trip, etc. makes me feel like this is one to keep "forever". I even have my second bike to help keep the miles off the RS, to that end.

While I liked the R1250RS and the ShiftCAM engine, as I remarked in my test ride video 2+ years ago, there is likely a snowball's chance in hell that I would change my 1200 to a bigger engine all other features being more or less the same. I certainly would not do it for the 1250 engine and the TFT screen. The RS would have to dramatically change for me to change mine out, and the question therefore for me is whether any 1300 / 1400 RS would be that different aside from the engine.

(04-10-2022, 04:46 AM)wessie Wrote: If I do need another bike due to some calamity and I have insurance money to spend, there are so many good bikes in Europe in the sub £12000 ($15600) category. Honda & Suzuki have recently launched new sport tourers to compete with the Yamaha Tracer & Kawasaki Z1000 Ninja. Then there are some lovely bikes from Triumph and Moto Guzzi (although the V100 is edging towards premium pricing). BMW's offerings in this sector are there but pretty dull in comparison.

I know you guys in Europe are so spoiled for choice ... it is like I live in the bloody desert when it comes to motorcycles I like. Over here, the focus is on cruisers of which I have zero to almost negative interest. In the UK you get to choose so many models we'd likely never see here, and you have hit the nail right on the head. The Tracer is a great example of that. I watched vids of the Tracer GT in the UK before it even came to the US and thought it looked like a great bike. So when it finally came here and I had the opportunity to pick one up I did and am pleased overall.

The apparent [potential?] resurgence of the non-adventure style sport tourer genre (again especially over the pond) and the offerings from Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda, Yamaha all put pressure on the RS. For me, BMW has to offer up something more than just a bigger engine to ensure the sales success of its premium non-adventure sport tourer.

On paper so far, the V100 Mandello is one of these likely premium bikes that I would shell out the cash for because it appeals to my right brain. That said, I have not seen any photos of it with matching panniers, which it would need to make it a sport tourer to compete with the RS.

(04-10-2022, 05:40 AM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: On paper so far, the V100 Mandello is one of these likely premium bikes that I would shell out the cash for because it appeals to my right brain. That said, I have not seen any photos of it with matching panniers, which it would need to make it a sport tourer to compete with the RS.

The Guzzi is the bike I am attracted to as well. I have never owned one but always admired the V twins. I tried to find a Norge but they were very rare. The Stelvio was just too heavy. I have ridden a V85TT and it is a lovely bike just a little underpowered for long distance touring. It is very heavy and I just don't think it has enough oomph to shift that weight with the addition of luggage. The V100 might address this problem, but it is likely to be over £15,000. Piaggio seem to have fixed the quality and parts supply problems of old and binned the useless UK importer that damaged their reputation.

I was just checking a local dealer website as I heard they had given up the Yamaha franchise (3 small "family" dealerships have done likewise in the county, with a corporate place opening on a retail park). Anyway, said dealer, already selling Piaggio scooters and Aprilia bikes, has added sister brand Moto Guzzi. This could prove expensive.

I saw on the R1200R forum the R1300GS may come in 26 pounds lighter than the R1250GS.
Here's the article.
https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-mod...t-44585308

That's good ... lighter is always good. Lighter is always good. I can tell the difference big time between the RS and the Tracer pushing them around in the garage. The Tracer is a little bigger but significantly lighter and easier to push around.