(04-11-2022, 01:01 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I also dislike lack of detents on the visor (Item #5) and for a premium helmet that is not acceptable. It is not as if the lack of detents enhances safety in the design.

How much riding do you do with your visor opened 25%? Do you think it'll stay there at speed once the wind catches it, or that wind could violently slam it full open or shut when you don't expect it to? Sounds like a potential safety issue to me.

Arai gives you three options for visor position -- full (locked) open, full (locked) closed, and closed w/seal broken to demist (which isn't needed anymore w/Pinlock). Unlike Shoei, Arai's mouth vent has two positions, one of them to point wind at your face, the other to redirect it along the inside of the visor and over your head. Unlike Shoei, Arai also has multiple sets of inlet vents at the front as well as exhausts on the top, sides, and bottom rear (which is why you can't mount the Packtalk Slim to them, the neck-vent prevents mounting the battery).

Methinks you want the airflow of a partially-open visor. Maybe you just need better venting? Is it because of wanting a partially-lowered tinted visor? That's what Arai's Pro Shade system is for. Really... what is it that makes these extra visor indent positions such a requirement that lack of them is "unacceptable" in a premium (ie, expensive) helmet? Shoei doesn't have a problem sacrificing rider safety to include things like internal visors -- do you find THAT acceptable?

(04-11-2022, 01:01 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:

(04-11-2022, 11:54 AM)36654 Wrote: ...
So, I actually had the Arai staff fit me in a Corsair X which is a great helmet, but gets few demerits from me.

1) While it has a lot of air vents, they must be completely closed to avoid generating noise
2) The height of the eye-opening is about 8~10mm less than my old X-11 or the new RF1400, I have to tilt my head more to see the dash or tank bag. The round shape (less fore-aft length than the Shoei's) seems to compound this problem (i.e., it's hard to look down at your shoes)
3) It's the only helmet I've ever suffered a stone chip. Filled it with auto touch-up paint and clear coat.
4) The chin guard / curtain must be installed to minimize noise.
5) The shield has no intermediate openings.......just open, closed and loose

So, the Arai is my cool weather lid

I am not surprised at Items #1 and #4 with regard to noise. In order to minimize noise in all helmets all holes need to be closed - as a motovlogger I am particularly sensitive to this. Helmets that flow a lot of air (such as the Shoei RFx helmets) can be noisy until vents are closed. Surprisingly, the biggest culprit for noise is the opening at the bottom of the helmet - chin area and also around the neck. If those areas can be plugged the biggest dropoff in noise will be seen.

One of the things that I don't like about Arais is the small eye port, which your Item #2 notes. Helmets marketed for racing, for instance, will have a larger eye port since the use case is such that the rider will be in the tuck position more than say a helmet targeted more for the sport tourer market. Maybe the Corsair X is intended more for the more upright rider ... just guessing. A 30 second search did not provide conclusive evidence in that regard. Arai also has their own design philosophy (round helmet, etc.) which could also dictate smaller eye ports. Interesting that this is the only helmet in which you got a stone chip since the round design was intended to allow for more glancing performance when the helmet is doing the striking, as opposed to when it is being struck ... which should be the same / similar but in reverse.

I also dislike lack of detents on the visor (Item #5) and for a premium helmet that is not acceptable. It is not as if the lack of detents enhances safety in the design.

The Corsair X is Arai's racing focused helmet, competing with the Shoei X-14. The eye port is fine in a forward lean racing position when you're kinda looking over the top of your bifocals.

As for the stone chip, I attribute that up to the rigidity (hardness) and thickness of the surface clear or gel coat. In retrospect, I wish I would have discussed the issue with Arai before applying the touch-up paint. I'm curious as to what their response would have been.

As for the lack shield detents, that's one of those .... It's how Arai does it!. In addition, they (Arai) use a cover plate over the hinge mechanism which is a throwback. But, in theory, having the shield loocked in place is probably a good thing considering the ~10% of impacts which occur in that area.
   
Obviously, the impact energy will be absorbed by the chin bar and the top/sides of the eyeport, but having the shield secured is likely better.

Pyrrho,

I've ridden many miles with Shoei and HJC shields opened to the first detent. In the humid summer weather of Pennsylvania, you really need that air, and I've never had the shield move. Of course, I do ride with the stock shield in the highest position or with a taller aftermarket shield. Thus, the airflow off the screen is hitting the top of my helmet and creating a downward force on the slightly open shield.

(04-11-2022, 02:08 PM)36654 Wrote: I've ridden many miles with Shoei and HJC shields opened to the first detent. In the humid summer weather of Pennsylvania, you really need that air, and I've never had the shield move. Of course, I do ride with the stock shield in the highest position or with a taller aftermarket shield.

As have I when I was younger and less concerned about safety and just happy to have a helmet on. Once I switched to Arai I didn't find the loss of intermediary position detents a loss on the shield because the increased airflow from vents was sufficient. As an earlier post has shown, reflecting what I learned from the 1981 Hurt report, is that the majority of the time, you're going to be impacting with your chin or face first. I wouldn't want a partially-opened visor when that happened, no matter how convenient the manufacturer made it.

(04-11-2022, 01:21 PM)Pyrrho Wrote: How much riding do you do with your visor opened 25%? Do you think it'll stay there at speed once the wind catches it, or that wind could violently slam it full open or shut when you don't expect it to? Sounds like a potential safety issue to me.
...

??! Pyrrho, looks like you want to change my mood.

Where did I say that I want it open 25%? Where did I reference any % of opening?

For helmet visors I want them to be able to open a crack and I want a detent to keep it open a like that. If the Arai does have a detent to keep it open a crack then I guess I misread 36654's point. I don't have an Arai so I cannot prove it one way or the other.

I wear glasses and FYI the Pinlock only works on visors not glasses. The visor cracked open keeps my glasses fog free.

Looks like you like Arai and of course that is fine. I am just commenting on the 5 points 36654 raised. I have a Shoei and it works for me. It has its flaws too. I also have a Sedici helmet that has no detents and that irritates me.

(04-11-2022, 02:08 PM)36654 Wrote: Pyrrho,

I've ridden many miles with Shoei and HJC shields opened to the first detent. In the humid summer weather of Pennsylvania, you really need that air, and I've never had the shield move.

Another very good point and nothing to do with fogging. Opened just a bit means you can get some breeze without getting dust in your eye. In Houston I will take all the breeze I can get and sometimes a crack is all the dusty conditions will allow.

(04-11-2022, 01:56 PM)36654 Wrote: The Corsair X is Arai's racing focused helmet, competing with the Shoei X-14. The eye port is fine in a forward lean racing position when you're kinda looking over the top of your bifocals.

Makes the narrower eye port all the more surprising. Thanks for clarifying. I did go to the Arai site and while they did not say it was race-focused they did show a motorcylist in a tuck position as a graphic background to the web page suggesting what you said.

(04-11-2022, 01:56 PM)36654 Wrote: As for the stone chip, I attribute that up to the rigidity (hardness) and thickness of the surface clear or gel coat. In retrospect, I wish I would have discussed the issue with Arai before applying the touch-up paint. I'm curious as to what their response would have been.

I agree that the chip is due to the hard surface, but my point was more about the roundness making any impinging object glance off so that the likelihood of chipping is reduced. Anyway ...

(04-11-2022, 01:56 PM)36654 Wrote: As for the lack shield detents, that's one of those .... It's how Arai does it!.

And that is their choice I suppose. I don't have to like it.

Don't get me wrong, I am not here to bash Arai or any other helmet. Just sharing an opinion on the helmet based on the nitpicks you had. We all have those.

(04-11-2022, 03:16 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:

(04-11-2022, 02:08 PM)36654 Wrote: Pyrrho,

I've ridden many miles with Shoei and HJC shields opened to the first detent. In the humid summer weather of Pennsylvania, you really need that air, and I've never had the shield move.

Another very good point and nothing to do with fogging. Opened just a bit means you can get some breeze without getting dust in your eye. In Houston I will take all the breeze I can get and sometimes a crack is all the dusty conditions will allow.

Perhaps it's just age, but as I get older, I find I need more air moving thru the helmet, especially in slow-moving traffic conditions. Last year, I took an intermediate rider course which included a lot of waiting in line for my runs at the exercises. Several minutes of waiting in line behind 10 or 15 idling 1200~1500cc bikes made me really regret wearing a full-face helmet. Yes, there is a time and place for modular helmets

(04-11-2022, 03:22 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: Don't get me wrong, I am not here to bash Arai or any other helmet. Just sharing an opinion on the helmet based on the nitpicks you had. We all have those.

Grumpy,
While some of the Arai design choices baffle me, as they do you, I think the quality of the construction is very good. As a result, I don't regret the purchase.

(04-11-2022, 04:35 PM)36654 Wrote: Grumpy,
While some of the Arai design choices baffle me, as they do you, I think the quality of the construction is very good. As a result, I don't regret the purchase.

Oh I fully agree. I even buy into their round shape philosophy, I think. Although when you look at those who crash for a living (racers) they don’t always have Arai helmets so maybe the benefit of that shape is not that dramatic. No doubt about the quality either. My biggest problem is the aesthetics, hence my preference tends to be elsewhere.

(04-11-2022, 04:21 PM)36654 Wrote: Perhaps it's just age, but as I get older, I find I need more air moving thru the helmet, especially in slow-moving traffic conditions.
…

I hear you although for me it’s the heat and humidity here in the Houston area. After 20+ years here I’m actually getting more acclimatized back to the heat, after being acclimatized to the Canadian temperatures for the second third of my life.

(04-11-2022, 03:13 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: ??! Pyrrho, looks like you want to change my mood.

My reply was to your comment about lack of extra detents being unacceptable, and not seeing any safety benefit to it. I thought I had addressed both. You hadn't mentioned your glasses, and didn't provide any other justification.

(04-11-2022, 03:13 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: Where did I say that I want it open 25%? Where did I reference any % of opening?

You referenced lack of detents between full open and closed being the deal-breaker. My 25% figure was arbitrary, as would be the visor position.

(04-11-2022, 03:13 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: For helmet visors I want them to be able to open a crack and I want a detent to keep it open a like that.

Arais have a defogger detent that barely gets the helmet off the lower locking mechanism and cracks the seal around the visor edges to allow air to get in. Their mouth vents can be configured to blow air at your face or up behind the visor.

(04-11-2022, 03:13 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I wear glasses and FYI the Pinlock only works on visors not glasses. The visor cracked open keeps my glasses fog free.

Arai's defog detent should do this, as well as anti-fog treatment on your glasses. Have you considered Lasik? If it's really hot & humid you're probably going to want to fully pop open the visor at a stop anyway.

I dunno why I'm defending Arai so hard here, maybe I'm secretly a helmet Nazi and didn't know?

The immediately above post is informative but the previous one I commented on … let’s say it struck me differently …

I hear you about the defogging setting, but as mentioned in the other post there are times you actually want more flow without dust. The Shoei does have the detents I need.

I have thought about LASIK but for some reason my optometrist seems to be cool on the idea. I have not pursued her as to the reasons for that.

(04-11-2022, 05:25 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I have thought about LASIK but for some reason my optometrist seems to be cool on the idea. I have not pursued her as to the reasons for that.

IMHO, if glasses will do the job, there's no need to play laser games with your cornea.

(04-11-2022, 07:39 PM)36654 Wrote: IMHO, if glasses will do the job, there's no need to play laser games with your cornea.

I have a feeling that is the hesitancy with the optometrist. I have chronic dry eyes as well so that probably puts an added complication but like I said I have not pressed the issue. Besides, my eyes don't dry out on the bike.

(04-11-2022, 08:35 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote:

(04-11-2022, 07:39 PM)36654 Wrote: IMHO, if glasses will do the job, there's no need to play laser games with your cornea.

I have a feeling that is the hesitancy with the optometrist. I have chronic dry eyes as well so that probably puts an added complication but like I said I have not pressed the issue. Besides, my eyes don't dry out on the bike.

That small bit of irritation from the airflow at your eyes (i.e., due to the slightly opened shield) may have caused some tearing action. I experienced the same thing when I wore contacts. It was one of the rare conditions where I could wear contacts comfortably for any length of time.

(04-12-2022, 05:43 AM)36654 Wrote: That small bit of irritation from the airflow at your eyes (i.e., due to the slightly opened shield) may have caused some tearing action. I experienced the same thing when I wore contacts. It was one of the rare conditions where I could wear contacts comfortably for any length of time.

Yes, you are right. It is the compensatory tearing from the small directed airflow that makes all the difference in the tear film, as long as it is not too much to overcome the tear production.

Back to the RF1400, I forgot to mention ... I found with my RF1200 that the chin vent is so good at flowing air that on more than one occasion I have had small bugs come in through that vent! If the RF1400 flows even more, I wonder what size animal would get blown in ...

Looking froward to your ride report on the RF1400.

(04-11-2022, 05:25 PM)Grumpy Goat Wrote: I have thought about LASIK but for some reason my optometrist seems to be cool on the idea. I have not pursued her as to the reasons for that.

It is hard to get past the marketing hype surrounding LASIK. If your prescription is changing as you get older, you will soon be back in glasses. Many people need reading glasses after using LASIK to correct for distance vision. At best, a temporary fix that is much better suited for younger people whose eyes will remain stable for a while.

I tried the multifocal contacts. I never got it right after six months and went back to glasses full time. Others try and love monovision with either a contact or LASIK in one eye.

So, moving beyond my blather about what I think will happen, I took the new helmet for a 120-mi ride. Mostly rural moderate twisties with about 25-miles of interstate at the end. I'm happy to report that the helmet is quiet (in my opinion) without the chin guard curtain installed but with the breath guard in-place. Opening the chin and forehead vents don't result in any whistles, just a minor rise in broadband or white noise level. But, a good air flow is achieved inside the helmet. There's no flow control at the exit duct.

Rotating your head doesn't appear to produce extraneous flow noises with shield locked down or slightly open. I speculate this is a function of the shield thickness (about 60% thicker than the shields on my old Shoei X-11 or Multitec), nice edge rounding on the top and bottom and some vortex sheet disturbing bumps around the hinge point.

Fit and finish on the interior is on par with prior Shoei helmets, while offering the benefits of EMT removable pads.

So, all is good with the product and the build, but I will warn any prior Shoei owner, the old-school shield detents are pretty much gone. Above ~40 mph, the shield is pushed to a near closed gap of perhaps 1/16". Now that still provides a nice cooling flow to the top of the cheeks, but obviously less than many of us are accustomed too. At lower speeds, the detents will hold the shield in position, but there isn't much "hold" between minimal and 1.5" gap.

With that being said, I'm offering these observations as 6-ft tall rider with a 33" inseam. My shield is the Puig Touring mounted in the lowest position which similar to the stock shield in the highest possible. My handlebars are stock without risers

(04-13-2022, 12:19 PM)36654 Wrote: So, moving beyond my blather about what I think will happen, I took the new helmet for a 120-mi ride. Mostly rural moderate twisties with about 25-miles of interstate at the end. I'm happy to report that the helmet is quiet (in my opinion) without the chin guard curtain installed but with the breath guard in-place.

Thanks for closing the look on this one and giving us your thoughts on the helmet after a ride. I cannot use the breath guard on any helmet I guess because mu nose is too short and all I do is cause my glasses to fog up by my breath. So that is typically first thing to be pulled off. I need / like the chin guards to cut down the wind noise to my mics so that stay on year round. Shoei chin guards are some silly sort of netting that I suppose is better than a kick in the butt, but not by much.

(04-13-2022, 12:19 PM)36654 Wrote: ... I will warn any prior Shoei owner, the old-school shield detents are pretty much gone. Above ~40 mph, the shield is pushed to a near closed gap of perhaps 1/16". Now that still provides a nice cooling flow to the top of the cheeks, but obviously less than many of us are accustomed too. At lower speeds, the detents will hold the shield in position, but there isn't much "hold" between minimal and 1.5" gap.

Is there a detent that will keep it open to about 1/2"? That is all I need for a crack. Beyond that I can go full open or "essentially closed" at 1/16" - either works for me.