Servicing front forks

[Grumpy Goat]

According to the Maintenance Schedule for the 2016 bikes, the fork oil should be changed ever 18k miles (30k km) but I neglected to get mine done thus far, and the bike has 30k miles.

Last Saturday I was out for a ride and stopped by the dealership to find out what they would charge to do the deed. I was quoted 2.5 hours / $585 for a full service. I asked because I am not so sure that I can do it myself, and definitely not in the summer months in Houston where my garage is in the 90s during the day and not much cooler in the evenings.

Has anyone had that service done and is that reasonable?

[darrell]

Fork oil - I had my right fork replaced at 22,788 miles as the fork seal change at 11,725 did not stop the fork oil from weeping. Mechanic did not change the left fork oil either time. When I asked at 36,000 miles they said we'll get it at the next full service. I had a full service completed at 50,232 miles which included the fork oil, brake fluid, new left foot peg rubber as was worn out and all other items like valve check, all oils and filters, spark plugs, etc. Repair order shows 5.4 hours for everything. I know they removed the forks to have them drain overnight. Mechanic told me the oil in both forks was perfectly clean with no metal filings or dark color. I'll probably request they do mine again near 100,000 miles.

I have never had to have the values adjusted in those 50,000 miles and still have the original brake pads in all 3 calipers. Just mounted my 8th set of tires (3rd set of Dunlop Roadsmart III) and was told the pads would easily make it through this set of tires.

If you planned to do the fork oil yourself I'd think you could easily wait until winter when the garage is cooler.

[Grumpy Goat]

Good point Darrell. I should look into what it takes to do the fork service, but since it involves taking the forks out then and then possibly taking them apart to some degree, I was leaning toward getting it done by the dealer. Also I don't want to buy any specialty tools for this. Doing it winter would be the only viable time for me.

I did complain earlier in the bike's service life of weeping in the forks (left being slightly worse) and the mechanic replaced the seal on the left side only (I believe) and cleaned it up and since then there has been no more sweating. So clean it is that I wondered if there was any oil in them!

The time for your full service at 50k miles seems about right if the forks did take 2.5 hours, as that would leave another 3 hours to do the other stuff.

[SauRoN]

I know it's what the manual says but to date I've never had a single bike ever had it's fork oil changes as per the manual for all of them usually round the 30,000km mark as well and can't say I've ever felt the bike being any worse for it.

I reckon it's one of those things you do when it starts to show signs of a problem.

That being said I've also never had issues with weeping fork seals.

[Grumpy Goat]

I hear you, but here are a couple of interesting non-BMW articles which suggest that preventive maintenance might be a good idea, even if there are no obvious issues with the forks:

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/how-t...vvy#page-3
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016...orks-ride/

That said I still have not done them yet, but I have a feeling that I will be having them done before the warranty period is up, which is in a few months.

[SauRoN]

I hear you, but here are a couple of interesting non-BMW articles which suggest that preventive maintenance might be a good idea, even if there are no obvious issues with the forks:

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/how-t...vvy#page-3
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016...orks-ride/

That said I still have not done them yet, but I have a feeling that I will be having them done before the warranty period is up, which is in a few months.

I'm up for my 30,000km in the next few weeks and I reckon I'll just leave it up to the luck of the draw and how the mechanics approach it.

If they do it and charge for it then I'll pay. If they ignore it then so will I.

Won't ask any questions.

Need a new front tyre as well so cheaper the service the better for my pocket. First month of paying nursery fees for No.2 so I'm poor now.

[SauRoN]

@Grumpy Goat you will be even more grumpy after I tell you this one.

Bike went in for 30,000km service today and when I go collect it they tell me that because it's "old" now I qualify for the service discount.

Look at the bill quickly and see it's about $70 off but that seems like a sham to me since the total is still $140 odd.

Got back home now and I see included in the service was the changing of fork oil and then thought about this thread.

So all in even without discount it would have cost me $200 or so but in reality was only $140.


Not too bad for a shithole country!

[Grumpy Goat]

@Grumpy Goat you will be even more grumpy after I tell you this one.

Bike went in for 30,000km service today and when I go collect it they tell me that because it's "old" now I qualify for the service discount.

Look at the bill quickly and see it's about $70 off but that seems like a sham to me since the total is still $140 odd.

Got back home now and I see included in the service was the changing of fork oil and then thought about this thread.

So all in even without discount it would have cost me $200 or so but in reality was only $140.


Not too bad for a shithole country!

That is good information and I would grab $140 if I had that opportunity. Heck even the $200 would be a steal. Labor rates must be less than half what it is here though ... (US$120 per hour).

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[SauRoN]

@Grumpy Goat you will be even more grumpy after I tell you this one.

Bike went in for 30,000km service today and when I go collect it they tell me that because it's "old" now I qualify for the service discount.

Look at the bill quickly and see it's about $70 off but that seems like a sham to me since the total is still $140 odd.

Got back home now and I see included in the service was the changing of fork oil and then thought about this thread.

So all in even without discount it would have cost me $200 or so but in reality was only $140.


Not too bad for a shithole country!

That is good information and I would grab $140 if I had that opportunity. Heck even the $200 would be a steal. Labor rates must be less than half what it is here though ... (US$120 per hour).

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Bloody hell.

It’s the little things one doesn’t consider.

Have been looking at a job in Atlanta but when you add things like this together it doesn’t seem all that rosy.


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[Grumpy Goat]

Bloody hell.

It’s the little things one doesn’t consider.

Have been looking at a job in Atlanta but when you add things like this together it doesn’t seem all that rosy.


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Now I'm lost .... ?

Are we still talking about servicing front forks four a good price?

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[SauRoN]

Bloody hell.

It’s the little things one doesn’t consider.

Have been looking at a job in Atlanta but when you add things like this together it doesn’t seem all that rosy.


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Now I'm lost .... ?

Are we still talking about servicing front forks four a good price?

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Ha ha.

No I meant I was looking at an internal job posting based in Atlanta (USA) and it’s these kind of related costs one doesn’t think about when considering moving to another country.

You tend to look at houses and what day to day costs are and then see the price of bikes or cars and think it’s not too bad but you don’t consider what the maintenance cost difference might be.


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[Grumpy Goat]

Ha ha.

No I meant I was looking at an internal job posting based in Atlanta (USA) and it’s these kind of related costs one doesn’t think about when considering moving to another country.

You tend to look at houses and what day to day costs are and then see the price of bikes or cars and think it’s not too bad but you don’t consider what the maintenance cost difference might be.

Ok I see. And agree of course.

When I moved from Canada to the US I looked at much the same things you mentioned - house, cost of living, exchange rate and paying off debt, etc. Other things like the BS costs that one has to pay over here (home owner association dues, health insurance co-pays, huge prescription costs/co-pays, toll roads, etc.) I am no farther ahead despite the so-called lower taxes and such.

[Grumpy Goat]

Well I had the fork oil changed today and ended up spending essentially the whole day at the dealership, except for the 1.5 hour I took for lunch and a bit of shopping with the wife.

The service adviser had quoted 2 hours which, with the oil and parts and supplies, should have cost $287. After 3 hours he admitted that he had misquoted the job and that it should have been 2 hours labour per side but he was still going to charge me for 2 hours. I guess they must have slowed down after that, or it was giving them trouble, or since they were not making money off the job it got put in the slow lane, but I did not get it back until 4 PM and I had booked it in at 9 AM. I will be checking the time and price with my original BMW dealership where I know and have full confidence in the master technician, and am 100% sure that he would not have taken that long.

The adviser did say that they have a $500 tool to do the job and since our forks have a "cartridge" exchanging the oil requires some pumping of each fork to evacuate and to fill. I just checked my Haynes manual and this does not seems to be entirely correct, but there is some pumping required to get the oil to settle properly. Also, by reading the process in the Haynes manual the job indeed seems to be longer than 2 hours but not as long as 4 hours, but it is quite involved. A special tool is indeed required to be bought or made, so overall I am glad I had them do this job.

Anyway I ended up paying about $330 for the job. Do I feel a difference? Too early to say but I believe that there is less compression and rebound when stopping at a traffic light. I just hope that I don't see any oil weeping again. When I got home I did see a tiny bit of oil smear on the RHS fork so I wiped it off and will keep an eye on it.

[Olgry1]

Well I had the fork oil changed today and ended up spending essentially the whole day at the dealership, except for the 1.5 hour I took for lunch and a bit of shopping with the wife.

The service adviser had quoted 2 hours which, with the oil and parts and supplies, should have cost $287. After 3 hours he admitted that he had misquoted the job and that it should have been 2 hours labour per side but he was still going to charge me for 2 hours. I guess they must have slowed down after that, or it was giving them trouble, or since they were not making money off the job it got put in the slow lane, but I did not get it back until 4 PM and I had booked it in at 9 AM. I will be checking the time and price with my original BMW dealership where I know and have full confidence in the master technician, and am 100% sure that he would not have taken that long.

The adviser did say that they have a $500 tool to do the job and since our forks have a "cartridge" exchanging the oil requires some pumping of each fork to evacuate and to fill. I just checked my Haynes manual and this does not seems to be entirely correct, but there is some pumping required to get the oil to settle properly. Also, by reading the process in the Haynes manual the job indeed seems to be longer than 2 hours but not as long as 4 hours, but it is quite involved. A special tool is indeed required to be bought or made, so overall I am glad I had them do this job.

Anyway I ended up paying about $330 for the job. Do I feel a difference? Too early to say but I believe that there is less compression and rebound when stopping at a traffic light. I just hope that I don't see any oil weeping again. When I got home I did see a tiny bit of oil smear on the RHS fork so I wiped it off and will keep an eye on it.

You mentioned your original dealer and the confidence you had in the master tech. Were there issues with your original dealer that caused you to have the fork oil changed at another dealer or was the dealer who did the work closer/more convenient than your original dealer?

In my younger days I attempted to change the oil on an inverted cartridge fork (GSXR-1000) one time. As I found out removing the forks was the easy part. I ended up bringing the forks to the shop to have them change the oil and to properly set the fork oil level in the fork tubes.
If the fork oil level is not properly set in the fork tubes that will effect how much the forks dive under hard braking. The chamber of air in the fork tube acts as an air spring so that if the fork level is too low you will get more dive on braking and if the level is too high the fork will dive less on braking.

[Grumpy Goat]

You mentioned your original dealer and the confidence you had in the master tech. Were there issues with your original dealer that caused you to have the fork oil changed at another dealer or was the dealer who did the work closer/more convenient than your original dealer?

In the greater Houston area we have the luxury of having 4 BMW dealers, one of which (not naming names but they are in Katy) I would not go to because I don't like the "vibe" when I go there. The other three are OK and one of them is a bit too far away for frequent visits. That leaves me with the one you are asking about and the one I went to yesterday. There were no issues at all with my original dealer other than distance (34 miles away) and the fact that most of the people who were there when I bought my bike are now moved on. Compare this with the dealership I went to yesterday which has a bit more upscale vibe but is still very friendly and is a little closer to home at 23 miles. So I have no real allegiance to either but I am working on maybe growing the relationship with the one in the Woodlands. So far both have been good to me as far as servicing is concerned.

BUT I have come to know the master tech at the original dealer and I like his attitude and his competence. Youngish chap who is mild mannered, clearly quite intelligent, and not interested in spending the customer's money foolishly.

In my younger days I attempted to change the oil on an inverted cartridge fork (GSXR-1000) one time. As I found out removing the forks was the easy part. I ended up bringing the forks to the shop to have them change the oil and to properly set the fork oil level in the fork tubes.
If the fork oil level is not properly set in the fork tubes that will effect how much the forks dive under hard braking. The chamber of air in the fork tube acts as an air spring so that if the fork level is too low you will get more dive on braking and if the level is too high the fork will dive less on braking.

Yes, the complicated process of getting that level right etc came across loud and clear in the Haynes manual. I agree that removing the front end is trivial ... its what you do afterwards that is complicated. The adviser said that replacing the fork oil on the telelever setup of the RT and GS families is much easier and would be done in 2 hours. Ours is more complicated than regular simple upside down forks due to this cartridge arrangement.

So it sounds like, for the frequency of the oil change vs the amount of effort and pleasure (?) gained from the job, this might be one to leave for the dealer if possible.

[Olgry1]

When my fork oil is due for a change I will definitely be bring it into the dealer.

[Grumpy Goat]

When my fork oil is due for a change I will definitely be bring it into the dealer.

Well I went for the first ride after having this done, and it was a two-up 95 mile ride today, as my wife came along.

I can say that there is definitely a difference, and it is not imaginary as I was prepared to allow. The front end is firmer and feels like new, more positive and definitely less dive and rebound. I do see an ever so slight bit of oil smear and ring on the lower parts of the fork but that is normal. As long as it does not get heavier then I am happy.

[Lee]

The service adviser had quoted 2 hours which, with the oil and parts and supplies, should have cost $287. After 3 hours he admitted that he had misquoted the job and that it should have been 2 hours labour per side but he was still going to charge me for 2 hours. I guess they must have slowed down after that, or it was giving them trouble, or since they were not making money off the job it got put in the slow lane, but I did not get it back until 4 PM and I had booked it in at 9 AM.

Makes me wonder if the Tech had not done this job before.
On both of our bikes it only took 1.7 hours and the total cost was $200 for parts and labor.
I waited both times so I know the 1.7 hour was close to the actual time needed.
I'm surprised you can feel a difference after the oil change.
Edit: Olgry1 may be right and your forks are overfilled.

Here's a picture of the tool used in the vice.

[Lee]

Changing fork oil on the older conventional forks was a quick job.
Remove a drain plug at the bottom of the forks to drain the oil, replace the plug and pour in the new oil from the top.

The forks on the K1200RS was even easier. This was not a service item and you only changed the oil if you were replacing the seal.
The oil in the K1200RS forks did not provide any dampening.
The K1300S did not have forks with oil in them.

[Grumpy Goat]

Makes me wonder if the Tech had not done this job before.

This was my immediate thought when he told me about the first delay. And the subsequent additional delays. Also that is why I want to cross check with the other dealership.

On both of our bikes it only took 1.7 hours and the total cost was $200 for parts and labor.
I waited both times so I know the 1.7 hour was close to the actual time needed.

That is pretty fast although definitely closer to the truth for an experienced technician, based on what I read in my Haynes manual. As for the costr - I think you got a break there.

I'm surprised you can feel a difference after the oil change.
Edit: Olgry1 may be right and your forks are overfilled.

Here's a picture of the tool used in the vice.

I wondered about that slight firming up, but overfilled or not I like it.

Yes, that tool sounds like what the adviser was describing, lengthwise anyway. I guess the threaded rod means that it is used to compress the stanchion?