Drive Shaft seized on the final drive splines

[Grumpy Goat]

Hi all and especially Grumpy.
I have had a nagging feeling that I was wrong in my last post, so I have dropped the FD again.
I am a muppet what is there is standard BUT FD will not drop to disengage rear UJ hub.
Worse than that my finding that the front of the cardan was sliding is correct. So either the 'C' clip at the front has never been snapped into place or is not there. The pictures show at least 3/4" sliding on the transmission end. This movement I think is preventing the FD end disengaging.

Alan, we are in total agreement on that. With the front coupling sliding (due to no clip) I think that it would be the exception rather than the rule for the rear coupling to slide off the FD spline, unless ... (I address this in Part 2 of the series set to drop tomorrow morning).

Also about a tablespoon of water in the bottom of the swingarm, this greasing is not in the maintainance shedule at all so dealer will not look in here. Do I tell my dealer that the cardan is not right and I found it myself as I do not wish a problem in the future because it will fail when 100 miles from home. Bike has only 6900 miles on and is half way through warranty.

Here is a screen-grab of the same spot in my swingarm.

   

With only dust in my swingarm I guess I am lucky, as you are not the only one to mention water coming out. Did you have heavy water on the rear gaiter, for example? Or ford any streams? I really cannot understand how water will remain in there under normal use. In Part 2, when one sees my corrosion there may be a few hypotheses. Maybe they should put a drain hole in that low point. Or maybe someone here might drill one in their swingarm.

[Lee]

Maybe they should put a drain hole in that low point. Or maybe someone here might drill one in their swingarm.

I think they need to redesign the rubber boot. Before the Wethead I never heard of BMWs getting water in the driveshaft housing.

[Olgry1]

When I worked on my drive shaft there was some water in the boot.

[AlanM]

Hi all,
Next steps on my cardan greasing saga.
Having looked at dozens of pictures on both this and the adventuregs forum it seemed that my cardan was too far rear which would explain the movement at the transmission end. Maybe u/j clip had not engaged?
So nothing to loose, attack it with my 1 pound copper faced mallet.
2 firm taps and a click and it moved into place with the 'C' clip located.
FD dropped easily and all looked good with a light coating of black grease on splines. SUCCESS!!!
Left the build line with the cardan not properly fitted!
Water in the swing arm and no trace of any sealant on either face on the boot.
I have dried it all put enough Comma Lith Moly grease on to last a lifetime
Lifting and lining up took all of 15 seconds so this will be an annual task in future.
Now all left is to seal boots and get it ready to ride at end of lockdown, not long now.
Pictures show as first dropped.

AlanM

       

[Grumpy Goat]

Alan, thanks for your posts on this effort of yours, along with the pictures. THAT is what I intended this Forum to be - a sharing of useful information that we can all benefit from, and an oracle for user experiences online. This is one of the best threads on the subject, IMO. Keep up the posting of your DIY efforts!

[AlanM]

Good morning,
RS now all back ready to ride and I have recovered from kneeling on the garage floor.
This drive shaft issue seems like a shot in BMW's foot as the USP on the R and K series is the shaft drive. Yet NO maintainace at all.
The cry from them that you must have riden through a river or used a pressure washer is rubbish, their test riders must have never spent hours on a motorway at 70 mph in the pissing rain. That really will put water into any device not fully sealed !! We all know don't we.
Maybe the designers have not allowed for the fact that the top of the tyre is traveling at twice the speed of the wheel spindle and at 70 is spraying water around at 140mph! My garden hose cannot do that.
If a check and grease was added to the 12000/2year service BMW would have probally saved thousands in claim costs, not had bad press and THE CUSTOMER would be paying for the fix. a win -win for them.
AlanM

[Grumpy Goat]

Good morning,
RS now all back ready to ride and I have recovered from kneeling on the garage floor.
This drive shaft issue seems like a shot in BMW's foot as the USP on the R and K series is the shaft drive. Yet NO maintainace at all....

Alan, I could not agree with you more on this. So dumb to not put an inspection requirement at least, as well as a re-greasing. So many other lesser checks are in the maintenance but not this. They dropped the ball on this.

BTW, I had to look up what "USP" meant - "A unique selling proposition (USP) refers to the unique benefit exhibited by a company, service, product or brand that enables it to stand out from competitors. "[Wikipedia]

Learn something new every day.

[AlanM]

Grumpy,
Have just seen your Drive Shaft Service video.
After I did mine!
You had the same issue in that front C clip missing, mine was there but not engaged in groove on shaft, stopped the FD disconnecting therefore you had to drop the FD completely. I only had to do the assembly fitters job and seat the clip.
That is 2 RS drive units not assembled to spec at BMW.

How many more out there?

AlanM

[BobAin'tStoppin']

Ya know, I've been watching this thread for a while, all the time knowing that I really should be checking my shaft. But these latest posts about the front spline not being seated over the circlip might push me over the edge. Maybe next 'warm' day I'll be out in the garage to pull this thing apart for lube and inspection.

[Grumpy Goat]

Grumpy,
Have just seen your Drive Shaft Service video.
After I did mine!
You had the same issue in that front C clip missing, mine was there but not engaged in groove on shaft, stopped the FD disconnecting therefore you had to drop the FD completely. I only had to do the assembly fitters job and seat the clip.
That is 2 RS drive units not assembled to spec at BMW.

How many more out there?

AlanM

That's a good question. I don't even know where mine went, even if there was one. I am told that a BMW mechanic has commented that he has seen several with and without circlips ...

[Grumpy Goat]

Ya know, I've been watching this thread for a while, all the time knowing that I really should be checking my shaft. But these latest posts about the front spline not being seated over the circlip might push me over the edge. Maybe next 'warm' day I'll be out in the garage to pull this thing apart for lube and inspection.

Go for it Bob. I know you are good for it! And take some pictures too.

[darrell]

Maybe next 'warm' day I'll be out in the garage to pull this thing apart for lube and inspection.

if you decide to check your drive shaft I suggest you open the front rubber boot first and check if you even have the circlip on the front spline. Also see using a screw drive or small rod of some sort to see if the drive shaft will move for and aft on the splines. I’m thinking it won’t move not because it is froze (rusted) in place but because it is the exact length needed to fully use the splines on both ends. I had a new drive shaft installed in my bike at 93,000 miles when mine failed (and likely the reason most of you are doing these checks) and there was no circlip installed with the new drive shaft. Could this circlip only serve the purpose to prevent the front end of the drive shaft coming off when you drop the rear end?

[Ray]

Could this circlip only serve the purpose to prevent the front end of the drive shaft coming off when you drop the rear end?

[AlanM]

Morning all,
Re 'C' clip on transmission output shaft U/Joint.
When correctly engaged there is still a small 1/16" (1mm) amount of axial play.

So as suggested by Darrell we had all best have a look in the front before dropping the FD as if no clip the FD will not drop as it should.

I don't know if you can see the front of the U/J at Gbox end by pushing the boot forward. If you can (dentist mirror and torch?) it should be hard against a shoulder, if more than 1mm away the clip is not engaged or missing so FD will have to be fully removed!!!

Riding will start soon after Covid and or winter so enjoy the RS and keep safe.
AlanM
PS will post on tyres when I have a 1000miles on the Avon Spirit's

[BobAin'tStoppin']

With the weather starting to warm up I decided to start into this project today. Temp is about 43F and sunny. I ignored the advic[/quote]e to look in the front boot before dropping the back end and the rear did not want to drop easily. Soon figured out that it was the spline not disengaging that was the hold up. So a little encouragement got that fixed up. Some observations:
- No water in there at all but there is dirt!
- No lube in there at all and there is some corrosion.
- No snap ring in evidence at the front end.

The bike is a 2017 red frame with about 23000 miles on it. At this point I have done the teardown but no cleaning or lube work. Here is a link to the pics I took to show the condition. I'll update this when I decide to go back out in the garage. There was a time when I lived to play mechanic. But that time is past, and I have little motivation these days. But I'll get back to this and update in a few days.

https://aintstoppin.smugmug.com/Other/R1200RS

[Ray]

With the weather starting to warm up I decided to start into this project today. Temp is about 43F and sunny. I ignored the advice to look in the front boot before dropping the back end and the rear did not want to drop easily. Soon figured out that it was the spline not disengaging that was the hold up. So a little encouragement got that fixed up.
.....
Here is a link to the pics I took to show the condition. I'll update this when I decide to go back out in the garage. There was a time when I lived to play mechanic. But that time is past, and I have little motivation these days. But I'll get back to this and update in a few days.

https://aintstoppin.smugmug.com/Other/R1200RS

Nice. Thanks.

Quite an investment in parts, but looks great.

I'm not happy with the level of corrosion your macro lens is picking up.... I might need to take a peek before the big trips later this year.

So - intact snap ring up front, or not?

[Grumpy Goat]

With the weather starting to warm up I decided to start into this project today. Temp is about 43F and sunny. I ignored the advice to look in the front boot before dropping the back end and the rear did not want to drop easily. Soon figured out that it was the spline not disengaging that was the hold up. So a little encouragement got that fixed up. Some observations:
- No water in there at all but there is dirt!
- No lube in there at all and there is some corrosion.
- No snap ring in evidence at the front end.
...

I like the bit about the "little encouragement"

Thanks for the excellent photos (as usual) ... you did have some rust in there. Do you think that you'd put some rust remover on first before greasing up?

[BobAin'tStoppin']

Do you think that you'd put some rust remover on first before greasing up?

Wayne, I'm still deciding about how to achieve the clean up. May go down to the hardware store and look for a small wire brush. That and mineral spirits might be the way to go.

The pics are all iPhone, so no macro lens etc.

And Ray, there is no snap ring. More later.

[Grumpy Goat]

Wayne, I'm still deciding about how to achieve the clean up. May go down to the hardware store and look for a small wire brush. That and mineral spirits might be the way to go.

I was thinking maybe a toothbrush and something like this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTITE-16-oz-R...er/3339340

Says it dissolves rust and reveals bare metal, which can then be treated and treated. Just an idea. Too much rust will start to change the tooth profile and increase wear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BobAin'tStoppin']

OK. Job done. If you go to the link in my above post I added a few pictures. Surprisingly it was easier to clean the transmission shaft than it was the rear spline. You can see that I did a better cleaning job up front.

There is also a pic of the lube I put on the splines. I found the boots to be a royal pain in the neck to get back on and seated. I hope they don't come apart on my first ride!

Cleaning was done with WD40 and a couple of little wire brushes I picked up at the hardware store.

I would for sure recommend that everyone should be checking their drive shaft in the early part of the bikes' life. It's pretty obvious that the factory in inconsistent about lube during the assembly process.